locked WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco


dave chaffee <medicdave220@...>
 

Darl,

Like you, the ground around my house doesnt allow for more than 4 - 4.5 feet.  I was told that in order to put my basement in in 1907, they had to blast out the granite.

And for everyone else, ALL my antennas are Lightning isolated individually, and as a group, isolated again from my shack. I cant afford to replace what I have, and I have a very basic ham shack (hf radio, quad band fm only radio, and an internet connection).

NOW, back to the original issue....  this problem only happens with FT8 so far !!!  I havent tried any of the other modes, because I havent tried them yet.  

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 7:44 PM dave chaffee <medicdave220@...> wrote:
Jim Brown,

LOSE THE GOD ATTITUDE !!!  I dont care what degree you have !!  I would like to understand what I am doing wrong. your pomp and stance does nothing to help me, so either help or go away !

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 7:23 PM Darl DEEDS <na8w@...> wrote:

Ps, my home owners insurance covered the one and only strike I have had in 40 years.

 

Also my tower is 200 feet from my house and I am not bonding it to my house ground, it has four 7 feet ground rods and handles it ok, it has 7 feet due to building up the dirt under the tower to get the depth for the required footer. Which was an entirely differ issue.

 

Never say Never, there are those of us out here that don’t live in ideal areas of the country.

 

Darl  NA8W

 

From: d_ziolkowski
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 19:14
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco

 

never use a 4 foot ground rod! 8 foot only!

 

then run a #4 from your shack gr ground rod to ground rods at power entrance.  

 

if you have other antenna masts they also need a ground rod, and they must also be bonded together to the main power ground.

 

the ARRL book is very informative, if you dont want to spend $$ on hard cover, a kindle version is $10.

 

If you don't have a kindle reader, you can read it on the web, all you need is an amazon account.

 

and yes, NEC says so, if you have an issue like a lightning strike your homeowners probably won't cover it. try explaining that to the XYL!

Dan KC2STA

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:43 PM dave chaffee <medicdave220@...> wrote:

I have always been taught to keep the 2 systems separate.  RF grounding and house electrical should never mix. Even the electrician that did my house electrical said NO !!  At the communications center I worked at, ALL RF grounds were separate.  That being said... I am also open to learning the right way.

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:34 PM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:

On 9/16/2021 3:02 PM, dave chaffee wrote:
> House electrical ground and shack ground are separate, and separated by
> my house. House ground is on front right of house, and was just replaced
> in April of this year. Shack ground is back left of house, installed
> november of last year.

What you have done is DEAD WRONG and UNSAFE. As W9MDB correctly pointed
out, ALL grounds in a building MUST, BY LAW (Electrical Codes), be
bonded together.

As to the potential for an RFI problem, ALL of the equipment in your
shack should also be bonded together right at the operating desk, and
coax shields should be bonded to ground BEFORE they enter your shack.
Bonding those shields is also critical for lightning protection.

73, Jim K9YC



 

--

David A Chaffee




 

--

Dan Ziolkowski KC2STA
SKCC #4290T
Ubuntu LINUX

 






--
David A Chaffee


--
David A Chaffee


Bob Lewis
 

Well, the National Electric Code *requires* all independent grounding systems in a building to be bonded (i.e. permanently connected) together. I’d say your electrician was wrong. The bonding ensures that all grounds in a building remain at the same potential. Suppose that an appliance in the house has some leakage to the electrical service ground wire. Your metal power supply case is connected to that ground. Next to the power supply sits your radio which is connected to your radio ground system via the coax cable shield. Suppose you place one hand on the power supply and the other on the radio case. Your body becomes the path for the leakage current to flow between the separate ground systems. If you had the two grounding systems bonded together (minimum #6 wire) then the leakage current would flow through that path instead of you. Even worse, suppose the power line gets hit by lightning. There can be some pretty sizable current flowing through your power supply and radio on its way to that nice grounding system you put in place for the radio.

 

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of dave chaffee
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:43 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco

 

I have always been taught to keep the 2 systems separate.  RF grounding and house electrical should never mix. Even the electrician that did my house electrical said NO !!  At the communications center I worked at, ALL RF grounds were separate.  That being said... I am also open to learning the right way.

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:34 PM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:

On 9/16/2021 3:02 PM, dave chaffee wrote:
> House electrical ground and shack ground are separate, and separated by
> my house. House ground is on front right of house, and was just replaced
> in April of this year. Shack ground is back left of house, installed
> november of last year.

What you have done is DEAD WRONG and UNSAFE. As W9MDB correctly pointed
out, ALL grounds in a building MUST, BY LAW (Electrical Codes), be
bonded together.

As to the potential for an RFI problem, ALL of the equipment in your
shack should also be bonded together right at the operating desk, and
coax shields should be bonded to ground BEFORE they enter your shack.
Bonding those shields is also critical for lightning protection.

73, Jim K9YC



 

--

David A Chaffee


Chuck Moore <wd4hxg@...>
 

Darl

My home is built on a slab of granite that is about 4 inches down. Driving down any ground rod is
nigh to impossible. The utility rod was laid horizontally in the four inches of soil at the soil-granite
interface. That is what I use for the RF ground, the RF rods are buried horizontally.  Periodically
I buy bagged sand and cover spots in the yard were heavy rains wash away the top soil.

I guess I could bore holes in the granite but doubt that will improve conductivity.

Regards

Chuck WD4HXG

On September 16, 2021 at 7:18 PM, "Darl DEEDS" <na8w@...> wrote:

I am 5 feet above rock. Lots of other hams are less then that. We use what is available to use. We can’t say only use 8 feet of rod. It’s not possible. And no I am not going to rennet a back hoe and dig a big hole and then air hammer 3 feet of rock out just to say I am using 8 feet of ground rod. I do OK the way I am until someone else pays to install the deeper rod.

 

Darl  NA8W

 

 

 

From: d_ziolkowski
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 19:14
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco

 

never use a 4 foot ground rod! 8 foot only!

 

then run a #4 from your shack gr ground rod to ground rods at power entrance.  

 

if you have other antenna masts they also need a ground rod, and they must also be bonded together to the main power ground.

 

the ARRL book is very informative, if you dont want to spend $$ on hard cover, a kindle version is $10.

 

If you don't have a kindle reader, you can read it on the web, all you need is an amazon account.

 

and yes, NEC says so, if you have an issue like a lightning strike your homeowners probably won't cover it. try explaining that to the XYL!

Dan KC2STA

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:43 PM dave chaffee <medicdave220@...> wrote:

I have always been taught to keep the 2 systems separate.  RF grounding and house electrical should never mix. Even the electrician that did my house electrical said NO !!  At the communications center I worked at, ALL RF grounds were separate.  That being said... I am also open to learning the right way.

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:34 PM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:

On 9/16/2021 3:02 PM, dave chaffee wrote:
> House electrical ground and shack ground are separate, and separated by
> my house. House ground is on front right of house, and was just replaced
> in April of this year. Shack ground is back left of house, installed
> november of last year.

What you have done is DEAD WRONG and UNSAFE. As W9MDB correctly pointed
out, ALL grounds in a building MUST, BY LAW (Electrical Codes), be
bonded together.

As to the potential for an RFI problem, ALL of the equipment in your
shack should also be bonded together right at the operating desk, and
coax shields should be bonded to ground BEFORE they enter your shack.
Bonding those shields is also critical for lightning protection.

73, Jim K9YC



 

--

David A Chaffee




 

--

Dan Ziolkowski KC2STA
SKCC #4290T
Ubuntu LINUX

 





Chuck Moore <wd4hxg@...>
 

In 1968 I worked for a local AM broadcast station as a teenager. A lot
of my work was to chase hum and loose signal grounds in the station
floor trays. The engineers were getting a bit long in tooth and for them
to get down on the floor required assistance for them to get back up.
It provided spending money for me and I learned a lot, especially how
balanced audio lines almost universally outperformed unbalanced
audio lines.

Signal grounds and power grounds (115 VAC, 230 VAC, 277 VAC
and 460 VAC) were isolated from each other throughout the station.
However both signal and power ground systems were bonded together
outside the building and connected to the safety ground adjacent to the
transformer power pad.

Part of the work checklist was to inspect the common ground
and report any potential separation of the two at their common connection.
That was checked each morning and each evening. But inside the building
the two were not allowed to physically touch each other, even if the signal 
ground was insulated. It seemed strange to me at the time, but a lot of
effort went into keeping the two separate inside and similarly a lot of effort
was put into insuring their common connection outside the building remained
patent.




On September 16, 2021 at 8:09 PM, "Bob Lewis" <aa4pb@...> wrote:

Well, the National Electric Code *requires* all independent grounding systems in a building to be bonded (i.e. permanently connected) together. I’d say your electrician was wrong. The bonding ensures that all grounds in a building remain at the same potential. Suppose that an appliance in the house has some leakage to the electrical service ground wire. Your metal power supply case is connected to that ground. Next to the power supply sits your radio which is connected to your radio ground system via the coax cable shield. Suppose you place one hand on the power supply and the other on the radio case. Your body becomes the path for the leakage current to flow between the separate ground systems. If you had the two grounding systems bonded together (minimum #6 wire) then the leakage current would flow through that path instead of you. Even worse, suppose the power line gets hit by lightning. There can be some pretty sizable current flowing through your power supply and radio on its way to that nice grounding system you put in place for the radio.

 

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of dave chaffee
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:43 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco

 

I have always been taught to keep the 2 systems separate.  RF grounding and house electrical should never mix. Even the electrician that did my house electrical said NO !!  At the communications center I worked at, ALL RF grounds were separate.  That being said... I am also open to learning the right way.

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:34 PM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:

On 9/16/2021 3:02 PM, dave chaffee wrote:
> House electrical ground and shack ground are separate, and separated by
> my house. House ground is on front right of house, and was just replaced
> in April of this year. Shack ground is back left of house, installed
> november of last year.

What you have done is DEAD WRONG and UNSAFE. As W9MDB correctly pointed
out, ALL grounds in a building MUST, BY LAW (Electrical Codes), be
bonded together.

As to the potential for an RFI problem, ALL of the equipment in your
shack should also be bonded together right at the operating desk, and
coax shields should be bonded to ground BEFORE they enter your shack.
Bonding those shields is also critical for lightning protection.

73, Jim K9YC



 

--

David A Chaffee





Michael Black
 

What modes do you use where you do NOT see the effect?

FT8/FT4/JT65/JT9 are pure tone modes where most other modes are not.  Usually RF problems are mode, power and band dependent.  For example I've got a humidifier on my furnace and the solenoid will buzz when I'm doing FT8 40M over 150W.  It's on my to-do list to put a plastic coupler on the copper feed line to limit the RF getting into the solenoid.

Mike W9MDB


On Thursday, September 16, 2021, 06:12:16 PM CDT, dave chaffee <medicdave220@...> wrote:


Jim K9YC,

Your info brings one particular question to me. If it is my grounding system, why does it only affect 3 items in my shack and house, AND only when trying to do digital, specifically FT8 ?  Everything else works with no problem.
I am in no way saying you are wrong, It just doesnt make sense to me.  If it was my system, wouldnt it affect every mode I use ?  And my dad just said it sounds like I created a ground loop.  Is that what you are saying I am doing ?  And if I am, it goes back to wouldnt it affect everything in my house and every mode of operation ?  You got my brain going into overdrive.  Please without the "you idiot" attitude towards me, answer these questions. I have a very extensive knowledge, but I dont know everything.

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:43 PM dave chaffee via groups.io <medicdave220=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have always been taught to keep the 2 systems separate.  RF grounding and house electrical should never mix. Even the electrician that did my house electrical said NO !!  At the communications center I worked at, ALL RF grounds were separate.  That being said... I am also open to learning the right way.



On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:34 PM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:
On 9/16/2021 3:02 PM, dave chaffee wrote:
> House electrical ground and shack ground are separate, and separated by
> my house. House ground is on front right of house, and was just replaced
> in April of this year. Shack ground is back left of house, installed
> november of last year.

What you have done is DEAD WRONG and UNSAFE. As W9MDB correctly pointed
out, ALL grounds in a building MUST, BY LAW (Electrical Codes), be
bonded together.

As to the potential for an RFI problem, ALL of the equipment in your
shack should also be bonded together right at the operating desk, and
coax shields should be bonded to ground BEFORE they enter your shack.
Bonding those shields is also critical for lightning protection.

73, Jim K9YC





--
David A Chaffee





--
David A Chaffee




Jim Brown
 

On 9/16/2021 4:23 PM, Darl DEEDS wrote:
Also my tower is 200 feet from my house and I am not bonding it to my house ground, it has four 7 feet ground rods
In general, there is no benefit to bonding tower grounds to the house ground if they are more than 100 ft from the house (some authorities say 60 ft). Remember -- lighting is an RF event, not a DC event, so a bonding conductor looks like an inductor to the lightning impulse.

73, Jim K9YC


dave chaffee <medicdave220@...>
 

Bob Lewis

I understand electrical paths in their many forms.  Like I said, its the way I was taught. Will I change that... Yes. The question is how do I do it the safest way ?  My main electrical grounds are on the opposite diagonal side of the house. Do I just tap into one of the outlets in my room ?

Question 2.  How does it prevent a RF ground loop ?   My knowledge in this area is minimal.  Especially since my 1980's electrical training didnt cover rf isolation and household electrical integration.  I understand it gives everything a common ground, but the rf integration is where i am lost.

Question 3.... How will it fix my current issue ?


On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:09 PM Bob Lewis <aa4pb@...> wrote:

Well, the National Electric Code *requires* all independent grounding systems in a building to be bonded (i.e. permanently connected) together. I’d say your electrician was wrong. The bonding ensures that all grounds in a building remain at the same potential. Suppose that an appliance in the house has some leakage to the electrical service ground wire. Your metal power supply case is connected to that ground. Next to the power supply sits your radio which is connected to your radio ground system via the coax cable shield. Suppose you place one hand on the power supply and the other on the radio case. Your body becomes the path for the leakage current to flow between the separate ground systems. If you had the two grounding systems bonded together (minimum #6 wire) then the leakage current would flow through that path instead of you. Even worse, suppose the power line gets hit by lightning. There can be some pretty sizable current flowing through your power supply and radio on its way to that nice grounding system you put in place for the radio.

 

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of dave chaffee
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:43 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco

 

I have always been taught to keep the 2 systems separate.  RF grounding and house electrical should never mix. Even the electrician that did my house electrical said NO !!  At the communications center I worked at, ALL RF grounds were separate.  That being said... I am also open to learning the right way.

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:34 PM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:

On 9/16/2021 3:02 PM, dave chaffee wrote:
> House electrical ground and shack ground are separate, and separated by
> my house. House ground is on front right of house, and was just replaced
> in April of this year. Shack ground is back left of house, installed
> november of last year.

What you have done is DEAD WRONG and UNSAFE. As W9MDB correctly pointed
out, ALL grounds in a building MUST, BY LAW (Electrical Codes), be
bonded together.

As to the potential for an RFI problem, ALL of the equipment in your
shack should also be bonded together right at the operating desk, and
coax shields should be bonded to ground BEFORE they enter your shack.
Bonding those shields is also critical for lightning protection.

73, Jim K9YC



 

--

David A Chaffee






--
David A Chaffee


Jim Brown
 

On 9/16/2021 7:36 PM, Chuck Moore via groups.io wrote:
Signal grounds and power grounds (115 VAC, 230 VAC, 277 VAC
and 460 VAC) were isolated from each other throughout the station.
However both signal and power ground systems were bonded together
outside the building and connected to the safety ground adjacent to the
transformer power pad.
Yes, and there are excellent reasons for this approach. Essentially the same practices are/were nearly universal in analog pro audio systems, and in distributed analog video systems.

73, Jim K9YC


Roger
 

Good morning All

Actually it's not a good morning here as I've just got up to deal with a number of messages in this topic requiring moderation when I would prefer to be in my nice warm bed. Please keep your comments temperate and not as if you're at the end of a long session with your mates in the boozer. Messages in a forum such as this need to be thoughtful and respectful.

I've now placed this topic in full moderation and nothing will be approved unless it is strictly relevant to this thread. Someone needs help with their station and shouldn't be expected wade through a number of disagreeable posts to find it.

IMPORTANT.
Please be aware that electrical regulations differ from country to country and the advice given here may be incorrect in your country. It is essential you follow the regulations for your own country.

Finally. I saw a comment that discussing RFI is off topic. I disagree. USB interfaces are essential for digital modes today and I see no problem with such discussions.

73,
Roger, G4HZA
Moderator


Shawn Johnson
 

I know its hard for some but one need to try to communicate intelligently and respectively and it may find easier to find common ground and a solution .

 

With that Said Electrical Engineer By trade Jim Brown is correct and so many toss out what is really the safety for yourself and others. NEC has a complete section 800 series on just that. Section 810 and 820 in particular. While you can have your shack ground and tower ground separate but not really as soon as you hook up the coax and you plug your power supply computers and other things into the receptacle it becomes no longer separate.

 

There are simple solutions but one who thinks they tried everything it can be frustrating and not seem so simple. Simply put Every ground rod you drive every ground in the shack should be bonded back and tied in to a single point. Which leads back to the service enternece in a single lead with no loop whatsoever. At the service enternece main breaker only is where the NEUTRAL is Bonded to Ground this being the most important. It doesn’t matter if the main breaker is in your main panel or a separate panel at the service enternece the Neutral is only tied to ground there and any sub panels the ground not tied to the neutral but bonded to each ground to a single point. Its really that simple. avoiding ground loops at all cost.

 

By default your house should have some sort of ground depending on where you live if it be a 8’ ground rod or some other county ordinance burried strip but seen many variations per county but all achieve the same. Your neutral bonded at on point at the service enternece very first main breaker.

 

Add a ham shack Tower put your radial field ground rods ect at your tower ground the best to your ability. Coax coming to your shack rf choke where applicable. I have a copper plate where all come together and that single point is connected to the House service ground. Your shack pound that ground rod outside have a strip in the shack and a single point from each tuner radio amp ect to a single copper strip or plate. Then 1 single point going back to the service ground and tied there. You can have 100 grounds at your residence but abiding by the same rules a single point back to the service ground. Avoiding any loops.

 

To not bond to your service ground is not a safety ground whatso ever and people who do so have no idea on ground potential and how it reflects in the system. This is deadly while some have got lucky some have not. If done correctly you can disconnect coax I use special caps which put the center connector to ground when not in use. So if tower does get hit any stray should go to ground and back out the service enternece. But when you build the system really your ground system and radial field should be path of least resistance and your ground potential there. While its possible to get stray up the coax why you disconnect and ground for that reason not leave it open or connected in storm.

 

Back to the issue at hand. First I would locate the frequency in speculation sweep it with antenna tuner what is the readings Reactance , Ohms Impedance swr ect High reactance will get you in trouble every time even though your tuner can tune it which is the root cause of RF or at least a lot of the issues.

Make sure the USB or comm cable isn’t coiled up under the rig and you didn’t use the cable that came with your printer as a good heavy cable with shield a ferrite core built in is the best one. Put the choke on the coax coming into shack but I found going back to the antenna is really the fix as add an amplifier in the mix you will find the issues intensifies when doing so. Go back through with a fine tooth comb making sure you have no ground loops.

 

I hope this helps and you can find a quick and easy solution it may seem daunting but don’t give up on finding the issue and not just putting a Band-Aid on it.. go back from the beginning of your install and abide by the guide lines and you should be just fine..

 

Regards Shawn KU0D

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Hisashi Todd Fujinaka K7FU
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:46 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco

 

Jim is not the nicest guy. But that doesn't mean he's not right.

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021, dave chaffee wrote:

> Jim Brown,
> LOSE THE GOD ATTITUDE !!!  I dont care what degree you have !!  I would like to understand what I am doing wrong. your pomp and
> stance does nothing to help me, so either help or go away !
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 7:23 PM Darl DEEDS <na8w@...> wrote:
>
>       Ps, my home owners insurance covered the one and only strike I have had in 40 years.
>
>
>
>       Also my tower is 200 feet from my house and I am not bonding it to my house ground, it has four 7 feet ground rods
>       and handles it ok, it has 7 feet due to building up the dirt under the tower to get the depth for the required
>       footer. Which was an entirely differ issue.
>
>
>
>       Never say Never, there are those of us out here that don?t live in ideal areas of the country.
>
>
>
>       Darl  NA8W
>
>
>
>       From: d_ziolkowski
>       Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 19:14
>       To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
>       Subject: Re: [WSJTX] WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco
>
>
>
> never use a 4 foot ground rod! 8 foot only!
>
>
>
> then run a #4 from your shack gr ground rod to ground rods at power entrance.
>
>
>
> if you have other antenna masts they also need a ground rod, and they must also be bonded together to the main power
> ground.
>
>
>
> the ARRL book is very informative, if you dont want to spend $$ on hard cover, a kindle version is $10.
>
>
>
> If you don't have a kindle reader, you can read it on the web, all you need is an amazon account.
>
>
>
> and yes, NEC says so, if you have an issue like a lightning strike your homeowners probably won't cover it. try
> explaining that to the XYL!
>
> Dan KC2STA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:43 PM dave chaffee <medicdave220@...> wrote:
>
>       I have always been taught to keep the 2 systems separate.  RF grounding and house electrical should never mix.
>       Even the electrician that did my house electrical said NO !!  At the communications center I worked at, ALL RF
>       grounds were separate.  That being said... I am also open to learning the right way.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:34 PM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:
>
>       On 9/16/2021 3:02 PM, dave chaffee wrote:
>       > House electrical ground and shack ground are separate, and separated by
>       > my house. House ground is on front right of house, and was just replaced
>       > in April of this year. Shack ground is back left of house, installed
>       > november of last year.
>
>       What you have done is DEAD WRONG and UNSAFE. As W9MDB correctly pointed
>       out, ALL grounds in a building MUST, BY LAW (Electrical Codes), be
>       bonded together.
>
>       As to the potential for an RFI problem, ALL of the equipment in your
>       shack should also be bonded together right at the operating desk, and
>       coax shields should be bonded to ground BEFORE they enter your shack.
>       Bonding those shields is also critical for lightning protection.
>
>       73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> David A Chaffee
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan Ziolkowski KC2STA
> SKCC #4290T
> Ubuntu LINUX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> David A Chaffee
>
>

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - htodd@...
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee

 


Michael Black
 

#1 All bonding must be done outside.  Otherwise you have a path for lightning to go inside the house.
The only way to do this unfortunately is to run a large gauge wire minimum 6AWG and preferably 2AWG around the outside of the house.


#3 See #2

To ensure this is really an RFI problem though (before you spend $$ running a good ground) you should be able to transmit at zero watts for sure and probably very low wattage.  You still haven't said you've tried that.

Mike W9MDB

On Friday, September 17, 2021, 12:03:50 AM CDT, dave chaffee <medicdave220@...> wrote:


Bob Lewis

I understand electrical paths in their many forms.  Like I said, its the way I was taught. Will I change that... Yes. The question is how do I do it the safest way ?  My main electrical grounds are on the opposite diagonal side of the house. Do I just tap into one of the outlets in my room ?

Question 2.  How does it prevent a RF ground loop ?   My knowledge in this area is minimal.  Especially since my 1980's electrical training didnt cover rf isolation and household electrical integration.  I understand it gives everything a common ground, but the rf integration is where i am lost.

Question 3.... How will it fix my current issue ?

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:09 PM Bob Lewis <aa4pb@...> wrote:

Well, the National Electric Code *requires* all independent grounding systems in a building to be bonded (i.e. permanently connected) together. I’d say your electrician was wrong. The bonding ensures that all grounds in a building remain at the same potential. Suppose that an appliance in the house has some leakage to the electrical service ground wire. Your metal power supply case is connected to that ground. Next to the power supply sits your radio which is connected to your radio ground system via the coax cable shield. Suppose you place one hand on the power supply and the other on the radio case. Your body becomes the path for the leakage current to flow between the separate ground systems. If you had the two grounding systems bonded together (minimum #6 wire) then the leakage current would flow through that path instead of you. Even worse, suppose the power line gets hit by lightning. There can be some pretty sizable current flowing through your power supply and radio on its way to that nice grounding system you put in place for the radio.

 

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of dave chaffee
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 6:43 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] WSJT-X & Alinco DX- Sr8 T #txaudio #Alinco

 

I have always been taught to keep the 2 systems separate.  RF grounding and house electrical should never mix. Even the electrician that did my house electrical said NO !!  At the communications center I worked at, ALL RF grounds were separate.  That being said... I am also open to learning the right way.

 

 

 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 6:34 PM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:

On 9/16/2021 3:02 PM, dave chaffee wrote:
> House electrical ground and shack ground are separate, and separated by
> my house. House ground is on front right of house, and was just replaced
> in April of this year. Shack ground is back left of house, installed
> november of last year.

What you have done is DEAD WRONG and UNSAFE. As W9MDB correctly pointed
out, ALL grounds in a building MUST, BY LAW (Electrical Codes), be
bonded together.

As to the potential for an RFI problem, ALL of the equipment in your
shack should also be bonded together right at the operating desk, and
coax shields should be bonded to ground BEFORE they enter your shack.
Bonding those shields is also critical for lightning protection.

73, Jim K9YC



 

--

David A Chaffee






--
David A Chaffee




Jim Brown
 

On 9/17/2021 4:49 AM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
All bonding must be done outside.  Otherwise you have a path for lightning to go inside the house.
The only way to do this unfortunately is to run a large gauge wire minimum 6AWG and preferably 2AWG around the outside of the house.
There is more to bonding than that done for the power system, and yes, bonding of driven rods is best done outside the building. Bonding must also be done within the shack -- every piece of gear that is part of the station must have its chassis bonded together by short, fat copper, and a common connection of those bonds must go to the collection of building grounds. Usually the best place to take the shack ground to earth is as close as possible to the operating desk. That bonding inside the shack contributes both to lightning protection and hum, buzz, and RFI.

It has been correctly observed that grounding and bonding of power systems varies from one continent to another, and sometimes from one country to another. The advice that professionals in the US are offering here are applicable in nearly all of North America.

The second edition of N0AX's ARRL book on Grounding and Bonding has just been published. Ward is an excellent engineer and a great technical writer. As one of those who worked with him on it, I know and respect the qualifications of others who did, and strongly recommend it.

73, Jim K9YC


Chuck Moore <wd4hxg@...>
 

The best lightning protection I have found to date for my home station
is disconnecting the transmission line and placing the end outside of
the house. Also the power is disconnected from the radios and acces-
sories. Trying to turn the exterior of the home into a sub microOhm
shunt for Millions of Volts at hundreds of thousands of amperes is sim-
ply not in my budget.

That does not mean I ignore local code nor ignore good practices that
are financially practical.

Chuck  WD4HXG

On September 18, 2021 at 5:19 AM, "Jim Brown" <k9yc@...> wrote:

On 9/17/2021 4:49 AM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
All bonding must be done outside.  Otherwise you have a path for
lightning to go inside the house.
The only way to do this unfortunately is to run a large gauge wire
minimum 6AWG and preferably 2AWG around the outside of the house.

There is more to bonding than that done for the power system, and yes,
bonding of driven rods is best done outside the building. Bonding must
also be done within the shack -- every piece of gear that is part of the
station must have its chassis bonded together by short, fat copper, and
a common connection of those bonds must go to the collection of building
grounds. Usually the best place to take the shack ground to earth is as
close as possible to the operating desk. That bonding inside the shack
contributes both to lightning protection and hum, buzz, and RFI.

It has been correctly observed that grounding and bonding of power
systems varies from one continent to another, and sometimes from one
country to another. The advice that professionals in the US are offering
here are applicable in nearly all of North America.

The second edition of N0AX's ARRL book on Grounding and Bonding has just
been published. Ward is an excellent engineer and a great technical
writer. As one of those who worked with him on it, I know and respect
the qualifications of others who did, and strongly recommend it.

73, Jim K9YC






Bill Somerville
 

On 16/09/2021 21:04, medicdave220@gmail.com wrote:
I am new to WSJT_X. I have an Alinco DX - SR8T HF Radio, interface to my radio is a signal link usb.  I am using WSJT_X version 2.4.0.  I have tried it in both 64 and 32 bit versions on windows 10/7/xp.
My problem is EVERY time I go into transmit, it resets my audio settings, and locks up my radio/signal link in transmit.  To make it even more interesting, it also resets my audio settings on both computers that I have running, and also opens various folders on them.  I have checked and rechecked the setup, multiple times, each time following the instructions for my signal link, and wsjt-x setup.  My antenna is about 35 feet from my radio room. I have put all new iron ferrite collars on all my cables.
My main computer is a HP Gaming computer. One laptop (win 7/64) is a HP dv6000, the other is an older dell.

HELP !!

73's
Dave Chaffee KC3NRI
Hi Dave,

throughout this discussion I cannot find any reference by you about if you have a CAT connection to your rig. Is the only connection you have via the SignaLink USB interface?

73
Bill
G4WJS.


dave chaffee <medicdave220@...>
 

Bill, no CAT control. straight link via Signalink. Reason for that is that my radio is not supported by most control programs. And too many issues with the control cable that is available for my radio.

73's Dave KC3NRI

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 12:55 PM Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:
On 16/09/2021 21:04, medicdave220@... wrote:
> I am new to WSJT_X. I have an Alinco DX - SR8T HF Radio, interface to
> my radio is a signal link usb.  I am using WSJT_X version 2.4.0.  I
> have tried it in both 64 and 32 bit versions on windows 10/7/xp.
> My problem is EVERY time I go into transmit, it resets my audio
> settings, and locks up my radio/signal link in transmit.  To make it
> even more interesting, it also resets my audio settings on both
> computers that I have running, and also opens various folders on
> them.  I have checked and rechecked the setup, multiple times, each
> time following the instructions for my signal link, and wsjt-x setup. 
> My antenna is about 35 feet from my radio room. I have put all new
> iron ferrite collars on all my cables.
> My main computer is a HP Gaming computer. One laptop (win 7/64) is a
> HP dv6000, the other is an older dell.
>
> HELP !!
>
> 73's
> Dave Chaffee KC3NRI

Hi Dave,

throughout this discussion I cannot find any reference by you about if
you have a CAT connection to your rig. Is the only connection you have
via the SignaLink USB interface?

73
Bill
G4WJS.






--
David A Chaffee


Bill Somerville
 

Hi Dave,

OK, so your PTT is being controlled by the SignaLink USB using its internal digital audio VOX circuit. That means there are two possibilities for the issue of the PTT hanging you are reporting. Firstly it may be a problem between the SignaLink USB and the radio that is causing the PTT line to latch up, secondly it may be due to unexpected audio going to the soundcard in the SignaLink USB. I can be fairly certain that the only digital audio going to the SignaLink USB is the normal FT8 (or whichever mode you are using) at the expected times, from WSJT-X. One caveat is that no other software should be sending audio to that soundcard, e.g. system sounds, i.e. the SignaLink USB must not be the system default soundcard. To take the first possibility further you may be better pursuing on a SignaLink specific forum, or maybe one related to running AFSK digital modes on your rig.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 18/09/2021 18:26, dave chaffee wrote:
Bill, no CAT control. straight link via Signalink. Reason for that is that my radio is not supported by most control programs. And too many issues with the control cable that is available for my radio.

73's Dave KC3NRI

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 12:55 PM Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:
On 16/09/2021 21:04, medicdave220@... wrote:
> I am new to WSJT_X. I have an Alinco DX - SR8T HF Radio, interface to
> my radio is a signal link usb.  I am using WSJT_X version 2.4.0.  I
> have tried it in both 64 and 32 bit versions on windows 10/7/xp.
> My problem is EVERY time I go into transmit, it resets my audio
> settings, and locks up my radio/signal link in transmit.  To make it
> even more interesting, it also resets my audio settings on both
> computers that I have running, and also opens various folders on
> them.  I have checked and rechecked the setup, multiple times, each
> time following the instructions for my signal link, and wsjt-x setup. 
> My antenna is about 35 feet from my radio room. I have put all new
> iron ferrite collars on all my cables.
> My main computer is a HP Gaming computer. One laptop (win 7/64) is a
> HP dv6000, the other is an older dell.
>
> HELP !!
>
> 73's
> Dave Chaffee KC3NRI

Hi Dave,

throughout this discussion I cannot find any reference by you about if
you have a CAT connection to your rig. Is the only connection you have
via the SignaLink USB interface?

73
Bill
G4WJS.






--
David A Chaffee



dave chaffee <medicdave220@...>
 

Thanks Bill !! I will check with signalink groups.


On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:50 PM Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:
Hi Dave,

OK, so your PTT is being controlled by the SignaLink USB using its internal digital audio VOX circuit. That means there are two possibilities for the issue of the PTT hanging you are reporting. Firstly it may be a problem between the SignaLink USB and the radio that is causing the PTT line to latch up, secondly it may be due to unexpected audio going to the soundcard in the SignaLink USB. I can be fairly certain that the only digital audio going to the SignaLink USB is the normal FT8 (or whichever mode you are using) at the expected times, from WSJT-X. One caveat is that no other software should be sending audio to that soundcard, e.g. system sounds, i.e. the SignaLink USB must not be the system default soundcard. To take the first possibility further you may be better pursuing on a SignaLink specific forum, or maybe one related to running AFSK digital modes on your rig.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 18/09/2021 18:26, dave chaffee wrote:
Bill, no CAT control. straight link via Signalink. Reason for that is that my radio is not supported by most control programs. And too many issues with the control cable that is available for my radio.

73's Dave KC3NRI

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 12:55 PM Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:
On 16/09/2021 21:04, medicdave220@... wrote:
> I am new to WSJT_X. I have an Alinco DX - SR8T HF Radio, interface to
> my radio is a signal link usb.  I am using WSJT_X version 2.4.0.  I
> have tried it in both 64 and 32 bit versions on windows 10/7/xp.
> My problem is EVERY time I go into transmit, it resets my audio
> settings, and locks up my radio/signal link in transmit.  To make it
> even more interesting, it also resets my audio settings on both
> computers that I have running, and also opens various folders on
> them.  I have checked and rechecked the setup, multiple times, each
> time following the instructions for my signal link, and wsjt-x setup. 
> My antenna is about 35 feet from my radio room. I have put all new
> iron ferrite collars on all my cables.
> My main computer is a HP Gaming computer. One laptop (win 7/64) is a
> HP dv6000, the other is an older dell.
>
> HELP !!
>
> 73's
> Dave Chaffee KC3NRI

Hi Dave,

throughout this discussion I cannot find any reference by you about if
you have a CAT connection to your rig. Is the only connection you have
via the SignaLink USB interface?

73
Bill
G4WJS.






--
David A Chaffee







--
David A Chaffee