Hi,

First post to the group - I have the following setup - FT-817, Signalink USB, Dell XPS 13 running Windows 11. I've been through the Windows 11 setup for Signalink as documented on the Tigertronics website, installed WSJT-X and configured it to use the USB Audio CODEC. The results I'm getting are, to put it mildly, erratic. Often, after startup it will decode perfectly until I make the first transmit. After that the signals on the waterfall disappear and no further decodes happen. Occasionally it appears to receive no signal from the radio at all. I've used the Signalink device previously (with the same rig and cables) with a different laptop running Windows 10 with no problem.
Any advice where to start to troubleshoot this?
Many thanks,
Tim G4WFT

Sounds like RFI problems -- audio disconnects due to noise on the USB cable.
TestsIf problems are occurring only during transmit: #1 Reduce power to zero and see if the problem stops -- if it does stop than it is definitely RFI.  You will see certain higher power levels on certain bands that cause problems. Then, if problems are occurring during non-transmit periods it indicates a system problem with USB devices so... #1 Check USB Power Management option is turned off on all USB devices Device Manager for Windows. For Linux set autosuspend=-1 https://docs.kernel.org/driver-api/usb/power-management.html
RFI Fixes: #1 Free - Move USB cables to another port -- some ports are more susceptible than others. #2 Free -- Check your grounding system.  rod-outside-the-shack is a common problem when it's not bonded to the main house ground.  Common grounding mistakes, sources, and solutions: A. Ground rod outside the shack that is not bonded to the main house ground. B. Shack equipment bonded incorrectly (e.g. daisy chained instead of common ground point) C. Desktop computer grounded to the house ground and not the shack ground.  Run a separate RF ground from the computer chassis to your station RF ground.           For a laptop use the retaining screw of a DB9 or DB25 connector shell, if your device still has them. D. Ethernet cables that bring RFI into the computer...which then ends up going to the rig too since the ethernet shield is tied to the case which is tied to USB shield which is tied to pin 4 on the USB cable (a very common problem on most all USB devices -- see my QRZ page).    Ethernet patch cables up through CAT6 are UTP, which stands for UNSHIELDED Twisted Pairs, four to be specific.  There is NO separate shield conductor in the jacket, nor a metallic shield around the RJ45 connector itself.           Just use a ferrite toroid at each end. E. Wall warts -- 24VAC supplies in sprinkler and alarm systems are notorious for picking up RFI into your electrical system.    24 VAC transformers can be RF-bypassed using .005 ufd caps from each output lead to safety ground. You can often use the cover plate mounting screw as your ground connection. F. Speaker wires The same approach as E also works for external speaker audio leads. G. Lamps (yes...lamps around the house have unshielded wires as do many other appliances). H. Washer/Dryers are notorious for generating and picking up RFI.  In general, newer high-efficiency models have more RF problems.      Ferrite toroids INSIDE the appliance housing can work wonders if the wiring harness has connectors in the AC line input, OR an external noise filter for the AC line cord of a washing machine can reduce RF spurs by 25 dB or more. I. HVAC systems with variable speed blower control systems both cause RF noise and react badly to RF fields -- we believe adding torroids inside the unit on the power lines will work. J. If you use a powered USB expansion hub, add a ferrite toroid on the cable coming from the USB power supply. K. SignaLink -- You can ground the metal box shell by simply wrapping an 18ga wire (or use a small crimped ring or spade terminal) under the head of any of the screws holding the rear panel, then connect to your station RF ground.     The case is isolated from both USB and analog audio signal grounds, so this does not affect use of the USB shield isolators. L. DC power supply -- both linear and switching -- READ THE PS MANUAL FIRST!  This step may void some manufacturers' warranty and UL/CSA approvals.            Remove any jumpers between the DC negative output lead and PS chassis or line cord ground  Add a .005 ufd cap from each DC output lead to chassis ground if not already there.            NOTE: Samlex DC outputs are already isolated and bypassed, but many others, including Astron, may randomly have the negative side grounded and no RF bypassing.  B through L may all need chokes. http://www.k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf  #3 Free -- start unplugging devices around the house and see if there's one device that is acting as a bad source of RFI.  This presupposes you can easily repeat the problem on your rig setup. #4 Cheap -- Add some USB shield isolators (see my QRZ page).  I use one on my SignaLink for example. #5 Minimal $$ -- Good USB cables like this https://www.amazon.ca/Tripp-U023-006-Device-Ferrite-Chokes/dp/B003MQ29B2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=11YRNPWDVWGCU&keywords=usb+cable+with+choke&qid=1658187349&sprefix=usb+cable+with+choke%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-5 #6 Maybe free (if you have chokes...otherwise can get a bit costly) -- add chokes to USB cables first, then all other cables including power, ethernet, and control cables. Fair-Rite torroids are good quality -- do NOT buy cheap Chinese ones --  https://www.fair-rite.com/product/toroids-5943003801/  You can use clip-ons but torroids allow multiple wraps and give better results. https://www.fair-rite.com/product/round-cable-snap-its-431176451/ I couldn't find type 31 torroids at Fair-Rite as of 20220721 but Palomar has some palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores/ferrite-ring-toroid-combo-pack/ Newark also carries them https://newark.com/c/passive-components/emc-rfi-suppression/ferrites-ferrite-assortments?brand=fair-rite RFI Problems
Mike W9MDB

Once gain without the HTML formatting...sorry...keep forgetting to switch to text mode for groups.io
Sounds like RFI Problems due to noise on the USB cable
TestsIf problems are occurring only during transmit: #1 Reduce power to zero and see if the problem stops -- if it does stop than it is definitely RFI.  You will see certain higher power levels on certain bands that cause problems. Then, if problems are occurring during non-transmit periods it indicates a system problem with USB devices so... #1 Check USB Power Management option is turned off on all USB devices Device Manager for Windows. For Linux set autosuspend=-1 https://docs.kernel.org/driver-api/usb/power-management.html
RFI Fixes: #1 Free - Move USB cables to another port -- some ports are more susceptible than others. #2 Free -- Check your grounding system.  rod-outside-the-shack is a common problem when it's not bonded to the main house ground.  Common grounding mistakes, sources, and solutions: A. Ground rod outside the shack that is not bonded to the main house ground. B. Shack equipment bonded incorrectly (e.g. daisy chained instead of common ground point) C. Desktop computer grounded to the house ground and not the shack ground.  Run a separate RF ground from the computer chassis to your station RF ground.           For a laptop use the retaining screw of a DB9 or DB25 connector shell, if your device still has them. D. Ethernet cables that bring RFI into the computer...which then ends up going to the rig too since the ethernet shield is tied to the case which is tied to USB shield which is tied to pin 4 on the USB cable (a very common problem on most all USB devices -- see my QRZ page).    Ethernet patch cables up through CAT6 are UTP, which stands for UNSHIELDED Twisted Pairs, four to be specific.  There is NO separate shield conductor in the jacket, nor a metallic shield around the RJ45 connector itself.           Just use a ferrite toroid at each end. E. Wall warts -- 24VAC supplies in sprinkler and alarm systems are notorious for picking up RFI into your electrical system.    24 VAC transformers can be RF-bypassed using .005 ufd caps from each output lead to safety ground. You can often use the cover plate mounting screw as your ground connection. F. Speaker wires The same approach as E also works for external speaker audio leads. G. Lamps (yes...lamps around the house have unshielded wires as do many other appliances). H. Washer/Dryers are notorious for generating and picking up RFI.  In general, newer high-efficiency models have more RF problems.      Ferrite toroids INSIDE the appliance housing can work wonders if the wiring harness has connectors in the AC line input, OR an external noise filter for the AC line cord of a washing machine can reduce RF spurs by 25 dB or more. I. HVAC systems with variable speed blower control systems both cause RF noise and react badly to RF fields -- we believe adding torroids inside the unit on the power lines will work. J. If you use a powered USB expansion hub, add a ferrite toroid on the cable coming from the USB power supply. K. SignaLink -- You can ground the metal box shell by simply wrapping an 18ga wire (or use a small crimped ring or spade terminal) under the head of any of the screws holding the rear panel, then connect to your station RF ground.     The case is isolated from both USB and analog audio signal grounds, so this does not affect use of the USB shield isolators. L. DC power supply -- both linear and switching -- READ THE PS MANUAL FIRST!  This step may void some manufacturers' warranty and UL/CSA approvals.            Remove any jumpers between the DC negative output lead and PS chassis or line cord ground  Add a .005 ufd cap from each DC output lead to chassis ground if not already there.            NOTE: Samlex DC outputs are already isolated and bypassed, but many others, including Astron, may randomly have the negative side grounded and no RF bypassing.  B through L may all need chokes. http://www.k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf  #3 Free -- start unplugging devices around the house and see if there's one device that is acting as a bad source of RFI.  This presupposes you can easily repeat the problem on your rig setup. #4 Cheap -- Add some USB shield isolators (see my QRZ page).  I use one on my SignaLink for example. #5 Minimal $$ -- Good USB cables like this https://www.amazon.ca/Tripp-U023-006-Device-Ferrite-Chokes/dp/B003MQ29B2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=11YRNPWDVWGCU&keywords=usb+cable+with+choke&qid=1658187349&sprefix=usb+cable+with+choke%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-5 #6 Maybe free (if you have chokes...otherwise can get a bit costly) -- add chokes to USB cables first, then all other cables including power, ethernet, and control cables. Fair-Rite torroids are good quality -- do NOT buy cheap Chinese ones --  https://www.fair-rite.com/product/toroids-5943003801/  You can use clip-ons but torroids allow multiple wraps and give better results. https://www.fair-rite.com/product/round-cable-snap-its-431176451/ I couldn't find type 31 torroids at Fair-Rite as of 20220721 but Palomar has some palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores/ferrite-ring-toroid-combo-pack/ Newark also carries them https://newark.com/c/passive-components/emc-rfi-suppression/ferrites-ferrite-assortments?brand=fair-rite RFI Problems
Mike W9MDB

If only I could learn how to click a button.

Sounds like RFI Problems due to noise on the USB cable


Tests
If problems are occurring only during transmit:
    #1 Reduce power to zero and see if the problem stops -- if it does stop than it is definitely RFI.  You will see certain higher power levels on certain bands that cause problems.
    
Then, if problems are occurring during non-transmit periods it indicates a system problem with USB devices so...
    #1 Check USB Power Management option is turned off on all USB devices
        Device Manager for Windows.
        For Linux set autosuspend=-1 https://docs.kernel.org/driver-api/usb/power-management.html


RFI Fixes:
    #1 Free - Move USB cables to another port -- some ports are more susceptible than others.
    #2 Free -- Check your grounding system.  rod-outside-the-shack is a common problem when it's not bonded to the main house ground. 
        Common grounding mistakes, sources, and solutions:
        A. Ground rod outside the shack that is not bonded to the main house ground.
        B. Shack equipment bonded incorrectly (e.g. daisy chained instead of common ground point)
        C. Desktop computer grounded to the house ground and not the shack ground.  Run a separate RF ground from the computer chassis to your station RF ground.
           For a laptop use the retaining screw of a DB9 or DB25 connector shell, if your device still has them.
        D. Ethernet cables that bring RFI into the computer...which then ends up going to the rig too since the ethernet shield is tied to the case which is tied to USB shield which is tied to pin 4 on the USB cable (a very common problem on most all USB devices -- see my QRZ page).
           Ethernet patch cables up through CAT6 are UTP, which stands for UNSHIELDED Twisted Pairs, four to be specific.  There is NO separate shield conductor in the jacket, nor a metallic shield around the RJ45 connector itself.
           Just use a ferrite toroid at each end.
        E. Wall warts -- 24VAC supplies in sprinkler and alarm systems are notorious for picking up RFI into your electrical system.
           24 VAC transformers can be RF-bypassed using .005 ufd caps from each output lead to safety ground. You can often use the cover plate mounting screw as your ground connection.
        F. Speaker wires The same approach as E also works for external speaker audio leads.
        G. Lamps (yes...lamps around the house have unshielded wires as do many other appliances).
        H. Washer/Dryers are notorious for generating and picking up RFI.  In general, newer high-efficiency models have more RF problems.  
           Ferrite toroids INSIDE the appliance housing can work wonders if the wiring harness has connectors in the AC line input, OR an external noise filter for the AC line cord of a washing machine can reduce RF spurs by 25 dB or more.
        I. HVAC systems with variable speed blower control systems both cause RF noise and react badly to RF fields -- we believe adding torroids inside the unit on the power lines will work.
        J. If you use a powered USB expansion hub, add a ferrite toroid on the cable coming from the USB power supply.
        K. SignaLink -- You can ground the metal box shell by simply wrapping an 18ga wire (or use a small crimped ring or spade terminal) under the head of any of the screws holding the rear panel, then connect to your station RF ground. 
           The case is isolated from both USB and analog audio signal grounds, so this does not affect use of the USB shield isolators.
        L. DC power supply -- both linear and switching -- READ THE PS MANUAL FIRST!  This step may void some manufacturers' warranty and UL/CSA approvals. 
           Remove any jumpers between the DC negative output lead and PS chassis or line cord ground  Add a .005 ufd cap from each DC output lead to chassis ground if not already there. 
           NOTE: Samlex DC outputs are already isolated and bypassed, but many others, including Astron, may randomly have the negative side grounded and no RF bypassing. 
        B through L may all need chokes.    
        http://www.k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf 
    #3 Free -- start unplugging devices around the house and see if there's one device that is acting as a bad source of RFI.  This presupposes you can easily repeat the problem on your rig setup.
        
    #4 Cheap -- Add some USB shield isolators (see my QRZ page).  I use one on my SignaLink for example.
    #5 Minimal $$ -- Good USB cables like this
    https://www.amazon.ca/Tripp-U023-006-Device-Ferrite-Chokes/dp/B003MQ29B2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=11YRNPWDVWGCU&keywords=usb+cable+with+choke&qid=1658187349&sprefix=usb+cable+with+choke%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-5
    #6 Maybe free (if you have chokes...otherwise can get a bit costly) -- add chokes to USB cables first, then all other cables including power, ethernet, and control cables.
    Fair-Rite torroids are good quality -- do NOT buy cheap Chinese ones --  https://www.fair-rite.com/product/toroids-5943003801/  You can use clip-ons but torroids allow multiple wraps and give better results.
    https://www.fair-rite.com/product/round-cable-snap-its-431176451/
    I couldn't find type 31 torroids at Fair-Rite as of 20220721 but Palomar has some palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores/ferrite-ring-toroid-combo-pack/
    Newark also carries them https://newark.com/c/passive-components/emc-rfi-suppression/ferrites-ferrite-assortments?brand=fair-rite
    RFI Problems


Mike W9MDB

Thanks very much for the comprehensive reply Mike. I've reduced power to virtually zero but the problem remains. There seems to be an issue with the audio interface somewhere as the bar graph in WSJT-X is very erratic, sometimes showing a normal display, other times showing nothing or very little. I'm fairly sure the Signalink box is OK as it was working fine a while ago when it was in use with a Windows 10 laptop. The Dell XPS13 I'm using now, with Windows 11, has just two USB C ports and I using one of those with a USB A adapter to the Signalink box. I've followed the Windows 11 setup documented on the Signalink website to the letter but the problem persists. I'm going to try another USB cable but beyond that I'm stuck really. I might try and resurrect the old laptop....

For Dell computers you need to uninstall "WAV Audio Service".

Mike W9MDB

Seconded.
Not an RFI issue Tim but an undesirable effect from Dell, just been through the same pain!

God Luck
Tony G4NBS

Thanks chaps. I do now have it working reliably.

Tim G4WFT

What solution fixed it?

John, K2CIB