locked Option to filter weak stations from display? #WSJTX_config


Bill Benham
 

Running Windows 10 and never more than 10 watts. Would like to have the option to filter weak signals from the display -- maybe all with negative dB -- because I have never been able to establish contact with one of them and it would be a great benefit in terms of decluttering. As far as I have seen, this option does not now exist.
--
73 de Bill, W4XAX


Reino Talarmo
 

Running Windows 10 and never more than 10 watts. Would like to have the option to filter weak signals from the display -- maybe all with negative dB -- because I have never been able to establish contact with one of them and it would be a great benefit in terms of decluttering. As far as I have seen, this option does not now exist.
Hi Bill,

Perhaps JTAlert has even that possibility. I am not using it myself.

As such a strong reception signal may not mean that the station has a good reception. That station may use very high power, but has strong local noise level, and that means they are capable to work only other high power stations, hi! A weak signal may indicate that you see another station also using a low power and you could work it, say at -18 dB level.

By the way many operators have been quite successful using 5 W output power. Of course it depends also on the antenna system.

73, Reino OH3mA


John Sexton. ko1h
 

FWIW when I first stated using Wsjt-x/FT8 I had the same opinion. I was only working strong stations. Now I have an antiquated set up but since I got a handle on my output audio it works great. Currently running 5 watts to a OCF 80m Dipole up about 30Ft. in an inverted V. Part of the antenna is currently under the snow on the top of my roof lol. I work stations with signals as low as -25. My area is sorta low noise but not very. I would look into other reasons you are not being heard by lower signal to noise stations. Because just like in any mode just because you are only hearing them 10 or 20 bellow the Noise floor that doesn’t mean you aren’t 20 over S 9 at their end. I don’t know your particular set up but its not all about what you can hear that can hear you. Just this morning I had stations coming in a -15 and I was + 20 at their end in PA from Northern Maine

Just my 2 Cents

73 de John Ko1h
Van Buren ME FN67

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: Reino Talarmo<mailto:reino.talarmo@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 11:13 AM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io<mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Option to filter weak stations from display? #WSJTX_config

Running Windows 10 and never more than 10 watts. Would like to have the option to filter weak signals from the display -- maybe all with negative dB -- because I have never been able to establish contact with one of them and it would be a great benefit in terms of decluttering. As far as I have seen, this option does not now exist.
Hi Bill,

Perhaps JTAlert has even that possibility. I am not using it myself.

As such a strong reception signal may not mean that the station has a good reception. That station may use very high power, but has strong local noise level, and that means they are capable to work only other high power stations, hi! A weak signal may indicate that you see another station also using a low power and you could work it, say at -18 dB level.

By the way many operators have been quite successful using 5 W output power. Of course it depends also on the antenna system.

73, Reino OH3mA


Michael Black
 

Checking PSKReporter you do seem to be receiving Europe pretty well but not transmitting very well.
What antenna are you using?  And what power level?  What rig do you have?
Mike W9MDB

On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 09:46:58 AM CST, Bill Benham <billbenham@...> wrote:

Running Windows 10 and never more than 10 watts. Would like to have the option to filter weak signals from the display -- maybe all with negative dB -- because I have never been able to establish contact with one of them and it would be a great benefit in terms of decluttering. As far as I have seen, this option does not now exist.
--
73 de Bill, W4XAX


Michael Black
 

Why are you limiting yourself to 10W?  Rig limit?You'd get more than 9dB on your transmit going to 100W.
Mike W9MDB


Jeff Stillinger
 

Ummm.... From the very first sentence in the User Guide?    "/WSJT-X/ is a computer program designed to facilitate basic amateur radio communication using very weak signals. The first four letters in the program name stand for “*W*eak *S*ignal communication by K1*JT*,”"

To do what you are asking would be the complete opposite of the stated design.   However, WSJT-X is open source, so you can incorporate whatever features customized to your station you want.   That is going to be fairly easy to do.   Signal reports are a "best guess" mathematical equation.   A few lines of code will resolve your issue.   The side effect is that you won't be seeing anyone with a "-" signal report.    We have a ton of filtering already going on.   Limiting contacts the world over. Why add another?

On 11/24/22 09:46, Bill Benham wrote:
Running Windows 10 and never more than 10 watts. Would like to have the option to filter weak signals from the display -- maybe all with negative dB -- because I have never been able to establish contact with one of them and it would be a great benefit in terms of decluttering. As far as I have seen, this option does not now exist.
--
Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB
KB6IBB Laboratories, Wylie Tx
http://kb6ibb-15.ham-radio-op.net/


JTAlert Support (VK3AMA)
 

On 25/11/2022 3:13 am, Reino Talarmo wrote:
Running Windows 10 and never more than 10 watts. Would like to have the option to filter weak signals from the display -- maybe all with negative dB -- because I have never been able to establish contact with one of them and it would be a great benefit in terms of decluttering. As far as I have seen, this option does not now exist.
Hi Bill,

Perhaps JTAlert has even that possibility.
Yes it does! It offers two SNR based displays, weak or strong, based on a user-settable db value.

de Laurie VK3AMA
(JTAlert author)


Chuck Reti
 

Simple solution? - AGC off, back off RF Gain.
Better still, improved receiver and antenna performance can result in stronger or more importantly, "quieter" signals (better s/n) on your display. Maybe they are hearing you but you're not hearing their replies!

Chuck
WV8A


Bill Benham
 

Yes I had already tried setting RF gain as low as it will go. (1%) My antennas should be good -- all are resonant and match the coax so SWRs are 1.5 or better and I don't ever use the tuner. I usually don't receive as good a report as I what I send, because I only run 5 to 10 watts.

Can anybody explain why the RF gain setting appears to have so little effect? I can set it at 1 or 100 and signals don't change much.

--
W4XAX


Bill Benham
 

My little G90 radio is capable of 20 watts peak but on digital modes it's probably not good in terms of heating up the final stage so I just run 10 watts or less. I have a 4 element yagi so that more than makes up for the low power. Having fun working ZL and ZS6 with just 10 watts!

--
W4XAX


Reino Talarmo
 

Can anybody explain why the RF gain setting appears to have so little effect? I can set it at 1 or 100 and signals don't change much.
Hi Bill,
I may try. On HF, especially on the lower part, band noise is quite strong and the noise of rig has only a minor effect. When you change RF gain, then both the signals and the band noise go down. But the S/N ratio stays almost the same. Of course it depends on the rig how much attenuation RF gain adjustment provides. So WSJT-X can easily decode all but weakest signals, where rig noise starts to affect. In that sense this kind of "filtering" does not work, hi".
I would just try to work station with a low S/N, you never know how much power they are using. Even more a strong station may have also a strong band noise and you cannot get through.

73, Reino OH3mA


Michael Black
 

You have AGC on?

My current recommendation for FT8 is to run the Rx audio levels at around 70dB on a quiet spot with AGC on slow.

This has been working wonderfully for lots of us.
Mike W9MDB


Jim - N4ST
 

If you use JTAlert, you can set up a window where you set the minimum SNR.
I filter out signals below -15dB because I typically receive reports 15-20dB lower than I give.
Nevertheless, achieved 8 Band WAS in a few months on FT8 after moving to new QTH.
____________
73,
Jim - N4ST

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Benham
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 11:56
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Option to filter weak stations from display? #WSJTX_config

Yes I had already tried setting RF gain as low as it will go. (1%) My antennas should be good -- all are resonant and match the coax so SWRs are 1.5 or better and I don't ever use the tuner. I usually don't receive as good a report as I what I send, because I only run 5 to 10 watts.

Can anybody explain why the RF gain setting appears to have so little effect? I can set it at 1 or 100 and signals don't change much.

--
W4XAX


Reino Talarmo
 

I filter out signals below -15dB because I typically receive reports 15-20dB lower than I give.
Nevertheless, achieved 8 Band WAS in a few months on FT8 after moving to new QTH.

Hi Jim,

It is your choice and is fine as long as you never call CQ! There could be eager QRP stations returning to your CQ and will be filtered out. Those could be even rare DX stations, hi!

You are not using the "WS" "weak signal" part of the program, are you.

By the way is that filtering in JTAlert settable so that messages to you are not filtered out independently of the signal strength? If so it would be fine and my comment is no more totally fair.

73, Reino OH3mA









-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Benham
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 11:56
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Option to filter weak stations from display? #WSJTX_config

Yes I had already tried setting RF gain as low as it will go. (1%) My antennas should be good -- all are resonant and match the coax so SWRs are 1.5 or better and I don't ever use the tuner. I usually don't receive as good a report as I what I send, because I only run 5 to 10 watts.

Can anybody explain why the RF gain setting appears to have so little effect? I can set it at 1 or 100 and signals don't change much.

--
W4XAX


JTAlert Support (VK3AMA)
 

On 02/12/2022 5:21 pm, Reino Talarmo wrote:
By the way is that filtering in JTAlert settable so that messages to you are not filtered out independently of the signal strength?
Yes it is. The filtering applies to individual display panels. You can have one panel wide open with all decoded callsigns, one panel with just those calling you, another panel with only strang sigs. Up to 7 panels are possible each displaying subsets of the decoded callsigns based on the requirements.

de Laurie VK3AMA
(JTAlert author)


Jim Brown
 

On 12/1/2022 1:10 PM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
My current recommendation for FT8 is to run the Rx audio levels at around 70dB on a quiet spot with AGC on slow.
My recommendation is a bit different -- as close as practical to 80 WITH signals present, and with AGC Slow. I've been running this way for 3-4 years.

73, Jim K9YC


Reino Talarmo
 

By the way is that filtering in JTAlert settable so that messages to you are not filtered out independently of the signal strength?
Yes it is. The filtering applies to individual display panels. You can have one panel wide open with all decoded callsigns, one panel with just those calling you, another panel with only strang sigs. Up to 7 panels are possible each displaying subsets of the decoded callsigns based on the requirements.
Thanks Laurie!

Excellent logic in your program! Perhaps I also should use it. Well, currently mostly QRT.

73, Reino OH3mA


Michael Black
 

80dB here is a touch too hot for my taste.  It's dangerously close to clipping hitting 0dB very quickly with AGC slow.75dB works at -3dB which is doable.  I was keeping it at -6dB.  I've got my peak level meter on permanent hold now so can see where the max level is.I think we need to adjust the "red" level on the WSJT-X meter to maybe 80dB which I don't see clipping but would be the max one would want I think.



Mike W9MDB

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 12:56:31 AM CST, Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:





On 12/1/2022 1:10 PM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:

My current recommendation for FT8 is to run the Rx audio levels at around 70dB on a quiet spot with AGC on slow.

My recommendation is a bit different -- as close as practical to 80 WITH
signals present, and with AGC Slow. I've been running this way for 3-4
years.

73, Jim K9YC


Jim Brown
 

On 12/2/2022 5:19 AM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
80dB here is a touch too hot for my taste.  It's dangerously close to clipping hitting 0dB very quickly with AGC slow.75dB works at -3dB which is doable.  I was keeping it at -6dB.  I've got my peak level meter on permanent hold now so can see where the max level is.I think we need to adjust the "red" level on the WSJT-X meter to maybe 80dB which I don't see clipping but would be the max one would want I think.
You're right that it's important to watch levels as we operate when set at this high level, and reduce RF gain if the green bar turns red, or if distortion is observed as thin vertical lines in the waterfall. That 10 dB difference is two S-units of weaker stations we hear or not.

73, Jim K9YC


Robert Rose
 

I don’t get it. You can limit the decode to CQ calls; why isn’t that enough?

A weak signal one minute (say -21 dB) could easily be a stronger signal (say -19 dB) a moment later. The weak CQ you filter out could easily be the DX call from Yehupetz that you have been waiting to nab.

73
Bob Rose
robert.rose@...
KN6UXD
DM13ld

On Dec 2, 2022, at 10:13 AM, Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:

On 12/2/2022 5:19 AM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
80dB here is a touch too hot for my taste. It's dangerously close to clipping hitting 0dB very quickly with AGC slow.75dB works at -3dB which is doable. I was keeping it at -6dB. I've got my peak level meter on permanent hold now so can see where the max level is.I think we need to adjust the "red" level on the WSJT-X meter to maybe 80dB which I don't see clipping but would be the max one would want I think.
You're right that it's important to watch levels as we operate when set at this high level, and reduce RF gain if the green bar turns red, or if distortion is observed as thin vertical lines in the waterfall. That 10 dB difference is two S-units of weaker stations we hear or not.

73, Jim K9YC