Operating portable #WSJTX_config #FT8


Dana Roode K6NR
 

Apologies if this is a dumb question, something I've never figured out.

When I operate portable on FT8 with WSJT-X I'd like to set my call appropriately - K6NR/7.  When I do this the CQ string omits the grid square; IE CQ K6NR/7 rather than CQ K6NR/7 DM35.  However I see other stations operating portable and they do send their grid in the CQ.

What am I missing?

  Dana, K6NR


Jim Brown
 

On 7/18/2021 7:59 PM, Dana Roode K6NR wrote:
What am I missing?
Hi Dana,

That there is zero need to sign /7, or /P, or /M, or /R because sending our grid provides far better information about where callers should point their beam. Such designations are not illegal, but not required, and except for certain contests that may require them for scoring purposes, there's rarely a good reason to use them.

I'm old enough to remember the FCC changing the regs so that such designators were not required.

73, Jim K9YC


Dana Roode K6NR
 

Thanks Jim; I realize there is no need to use a portable designation, it is just my personal preference.  However, since I can't figure out how to get WSJT-X to do it and still send the grid, on FT8 I do not use it.

I've been a ham for 52 years.

  Dana


Jim Shorney
 

See section 7.5 of the user's manual on Nonstandard Callsigns.

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 20:34:12 -0700
"Dana Roode K6NR" <dana.roode@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim; I realize there is no need to use a portable designation, it is just my personal preference.  However, since I can't figure out how to get WSJT-X to do it and still send the grid, on FT8 I do not use it.

I've been a ham for 52 years.

Dana


Karl Beckman WA8NVW - AFA5VB
 

This has been well covered recently in this forum, almost to the point of becoming annoying.  Please take note and pass the word to your ham friends. 
1)  FCC RULES PART 97 DOES NOT REQUIRE OR EVEN MENTION THE IDEA OF MODIFYING YOUR ISSUED OPERATOR CALL SIGN WITH A /P, /M, OR /R SUFFIX.  It has been over 45 years since that ID method and the single licensed station location concept was abandoned by the FCC,
2)  Well meaning amateur "Elmers", PLEASE STOP teaching new hams those archaic cancelled ID rules which do not exist in Part 97. They are incompatible with the advanced digital QSO technologies available to us.  The ITU defines a reversed format for amateur DX operation outside the licensee's country which uses the host country's assigned prefix. 
3)  When operating WSJTx modes you enter your issued callsign (maximum 6 characters) and your grid square. Nothing else will fit into the highly compressed data protocols of these weak signal modes and be readable by your QSO partner at the other end.  Meanwhile, ARRL and others offering virtual QSL services have added multiple location capability into their packages, specifically to accomodate amateur operators with more than one station equipment location. 
- -

Karl  WA8NVW  OH
WA8NVW@...
in WSJTX@groups.io


Bill Somerville
 

On 19/07/2021 22:05, Karl Beckman wrote:
This has been well covered recently in this forum, almost to the point of becoming annoying.  Please take note and pass the word to your ham friends. 
1)  FCC RULES PART 97 DOES NOT REQUIRE OR EVEN MENTION THE IDEA OF MODIFYING YOUR ISSUED OPERATOR CALL SIGN WITH A /P, /M, OR /R SUFFIX.  It has been over 45 years since that ID method and the single licensed station location concept was abandoned by the FCC,
2)  Well meaning amateur "Elmers", PLEASE STOP teaching new hams those archaic cancelled ID rules which do not exist in Part 97. They are incompatible with the advanced digital QSO technologies available to us.  The ITU defines a reversed format for amateur DX operation outside the licensee's country which uses the host country's assigned prefix. 
3)  When operating WSJTx modes you enter your issued callsign (maximum 6 characters) and your grid square. Nothing else will fit into the highly compressed data protocols of these weak signal modes and be readable by your QSO partner at the other end.  Meanwhile, ARRL and others offering virtual QSL services have added multiple location capability into their packages, specifically to accomodate amateur operators with more than one station equipment location. 
- -

Karl  WA8NVW  OH
WA8NVW@...
in WSJTX@groups.io

Karl,

modes like FT8, FT4, MSK144, Q65, and FST4, which all share the same basic source encoding rules, have a great deal of flexibility for nonstandard callsigns (by non-standard I mean in terms of these modes definition of a standard callsign which is more complex than "maximum of 6 characters"). If a nonstandard callsign is used with these modes then there are restrictions on what other information can be passed in standard format messages. The main restriction is that gridsquares cannot be conveyed in CQ or QRZ messages, another secondary but important restriction is that two stations with such nonstandard callsigns cannot easily work each other, yet another is that the special contest modes do not support nonstandard callsigns.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Marion D. Kitchens
 


Do the rules part 97 PROHIBIT using suffix?  I kinda like seeing those suffizs because it offers addition information.
 
Just my 2 cents worth....
 
Marion,    K4GOK
 
On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 14:05:09 -0700 "Karl Beckman" <wa8nvw@...> writes:

This has been well covered recently in this forum, almost to the point of becoming annoying.  Please take note and pass the word to your ham friends. 
1)  FCC RULES PART 97 DOES NOT REQUIRE OR EVEN MENTION THE IDEA OF MODIFYING YOUR ISSUED OPERATOR CALL SIGN WITH A /P, /M, OR /R SUFFIX.  It has been over 45 years since that ID method and the single licensed station location concept was abandoned by the FCC,
2)  Well meaning amateur "Elmers", PLEASE STOP teaching new hams those archaic cancelled ID rules which do not exist in Part 97. They are incompatible with the advanced digital QSO technologies available to us.  The ITU defines a reversed format for amateur DX operation outside the licensee's country which uses the host country's assigned prefix. 
3)  When operating WSJTx modes you enter your issued callsign (maximum 6 characters) and your grid square. Nothing else will fit into the highly compressed data protocols of these weak signal modes and be readable by your QSO partner at the other end.  Meanwhile, ARRL and others offering virtual QSL services have added multiple location capability into their packages, specifically to accomodate amateur operators with more than one station equipment location. 
- -

Karl  WA8NVW  OH
WA8NVW@...
in WSJTX@groups.io
 


Jim Brown
 

On 7/19/2021 2:33 PM, Marion D. Kitchens wrote:
Do the rules part 97 PROHIBIT using suffix?
No. But for the reasons Bill cited, doing so is a bad idea.

73, Jim K9YC


Bill Somerville
 

On 19/07/2021 22:41, Jim Brown wrote:
On 7/19/2021 2:33 PM, Marion D. Kitchens wrote:
Do the rules part 97 PROHIBIT using suffix?

No. But for the reasons Bill cited, doing so is a bad idea.

73, Jim K9YC

Jim,

I would not say it is a bad idea, it is a user choice. Complaining that that you can't add a gridsquare to your CQ calls if you are using a nonstandard callsign is a bad idea, as it demonstrates a poor understanding of how weak signal digimodes work.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Jim Brown
 

On 7/19/2021 2:44 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
I would not say it is a bad idea, it is a user choice. Complaining that that you can't add a gridsquare to your CQ calls if you are using a nonstandard callsign is a bad idea, as it demonstrates a poor understanding of how weak signal digimodes work.
Yes, that too. But as I observed in my response to Dana, a grid square provides far more information to others considering whether to work you and where to point their antenna than does any of those suffixes. Consider, for example, a station in California seeing a station signing /7. The US 7th area extends from Washington to Arizona, so depending on where you are in California, the beam heading varies by as much as 90-130 degrees.

And if you're contesting or calling a DX pileup on CW, SSB, or RTTY, you're both wasting time AND making it more difficult for the other station to get your call right. Ditto for those who seek preferential treatment by signing /QRP. I work a lot of QRP (170 countries confirmed), I've never done that, and I won't work stations who do.

73, Jim K9YC


Tom Melvin
 

Karl

Please remember Amateur Radio is world wide - so FCC rules may not apply and people should be advised to check their own licence wording.

In the UK while it is not mandatory to send /P,  /A etc it is RECOMMENDED.


(d) When operating at locations other than the Main Station Address, it is recommended that the following suffixes be used:

I. If the Licensee operates the Radio Equipment at an Alternative Address, the Licensee may use the suffix “/A” with the Callsign;

II. If the Licensee operates the Radio Equipment at a Temporary Location, the Licensee may use the suffix “/P” with the Callsign;

III. If the Licensee operates the Radio Equipment from a Mobile location, the Licensee may use the suffix “/M” with theCallsign;

IV. If the Licensee operates the Radio Equipment from a Maritime Mobile location, the Licensee may use the suffix “/MM” with the Callsign.


I would much prefer to follow recommendations than risk misunderstanding.  Also WSJT-X  treat /P, /A etc as ’standard’ callsigns so no issue there.   In some contests it is mandatory to sign /P if portable.  By all means jump on stations governed by FCC rules but that is not everyone.

Regards

Tom
GM8MJV


On 19 Jul 2021, at 22:05, Karl Beckman <wa8nvw@...> wrote:

This has been well covered recently in this forum, almost to the point of becoming annoying.  Please take note and pass the word to your ham friends. 
1)  FCC RULES PART 97 DOES NOT REQUIRE OR EVEN MENTION THE IDEA OF MODIFYING YOUR ISSUED OPERATOR CALL SIGN WITH A /P, /M, OR /R SUFFIX.  It has been over 45 years since that ID method and the single licensed station location concept was abandoned by the FCC,
2)  Well meaning amateur "Elmers", PLEASE STOP teaching new hams those archaic cancelled ID rules which do not exist in Part 97. They are incompatible with the advanced digital QSO technologies available to us.  The ITU defines a reversed format for amateur DX operation outside the licensee's country which uses the host country's assigned prefix. 
3)  When operating WSJTx modes you enter your issued callsign (maximum 6 characters) and your grid square. Nothing else will fit into the highly compressed data protocols of these weak signal modes and be readable by your QSO partner at the other end.  Meanwhile, ARRL and others offering virtual QSL services have added multiple location capability into their packages, specifically to accomodate amateur operators with more than one station equipment location. 
- -

Karl  WA8NVW  OH
WA8NVW@...
in WSJTX@groups.io




Reino Talarmo
 

>I would much prefer to follow recommendations than risk misunderstanding.  Also WSJT-X  treat /P, /A etc as ’standard’ callsigns so no issue there.  

Hi Tom,

Have you tested how /P, /M, /MM, /A, /1 - /9 behave in CQ messages with a standard call sign?
If you test, then you should note that only /P supports locator in the CQ message. In all other cases only call sign is sent and that is the issue.

73, Reino OH3mA

 


Bill Somerville
 

On 20/07/2021 12:38, Reino Talarmo wrote:

>I would much prefer to follow recommendations than risk misunderstanding.  Also WSJT-X  treat /P, /A etc as ’standard’ callsigns so no issue there.  

Hi Tom,

Have you tested how /P, /M, /MM, /A, /1 - /9 behave in CQ messages with a standard call sign?
If you test, then you should note that only /P supports locator in the CQ message. In all other cases only call sign is sent and that is the issue.

73, Reino OH3mA

Hi Tom and Reino,

the way the newer 77-bit payload protocols work with /P and /R callsign suffixes is not quite the same as standard callsigns, but has less restrictions that other nonstandard callsigns. The reason /P and /R are different is that they are both used in certain contest exchanges, and since nonstandard calls are not supported in contest modes, special source encoding rules are used for /P and /R suffixes.

See the WSJT-X User Guide Contest Messages section for some examples:

https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-2.4.0.html#CONTEST_MSGS

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Karl Beckman WA8NVW - AFA5VB
 

TOM -
Thanks for your reply reminding us all that amateur radio exists in most countries around the world,  I see that both of our examples dealt with transmitting from a different location than reflected on our operating permits, but still within the same regulatory jurisdiction, not across international boundaries in different IARU regions.  Since the UK's internal regulations recommend that you to use the / and a suffix letter, by all means comply with them.  As noted, our FCC abandoned that practice almost 50 years ago.  I will continue recommending that folks read the excellent on-line WSJT documentation to learn about the conversation practices that differ from those used on voice, CW, or other digital modes. 
--
Karl  WA8NVW  OH
WA8NVW@...
in WSJTX@groups.io


Brian G3VGZ
 

I operate /p in the UK and use the callsign G8AOE/P -- the messages include
my locator. This may not be true for longer callsigns.



"Tom Melvin" <tom@tkrh.co.uk> wrote:

Please remember Amateur Radio is world wide - so FCC rules may not apply
and people should be advised to check their own licence wording.

In the UK while it is not mandatory to send /P, /A etc it is RECOMMENDED.
--
Brian D
G3VGZ G8AOE G3T
IO94im


Reino Talarmo
 

Hi Brian,
Bill gave explanation why /P is possible with standard call signs, it is not
a length issue as such:
The reason /P and /R are different is that they are both used in certain
contest exchanges, and since nonstandard calls are not supported in contest
modes, special source encoding rules are used for /P and /R suffixes.
73, Reino OH3mA

I operate /p in the UK and use the callsign G8AOE/P -- the messages include
my locator. This may not be true for longer callsigns.



"Tom Melvin" <tom@tkrh.co.uk> wrote:

Please remember Amateur Radio is world wide - so FCC rules may not
apply and people should be advised to check their own licence wording.

In the UK while it is not mandatory to send /P, /A etc it is RECOMMENDED.

--
Brian D
G3VGZ G8AOE G3T
IO94im


Tom Melvin
 

Cool

The joys of different countries rules :-)

I was reading the small print of my licence to confirm it and I also came across when operation from the location (as it’s the same section as /P /A etc) I _guess_ it relates to that - we need to send NGR or Address or ‘couple of other things; or SIX character grid locator - we  send 4 by default, some contest modes will do the 6 but generally only 4 - another thing to possible trip us up. Thankfully Ofcom is not really that pro-active in policing the bands. If cause interference with MOD and other commercial users may be different.

Will just play radio and try to get on 
Regards

Tom
GM8MJV


On 21 Jul 2021, at 05:12, Karl Beckman <wa8nvw@...> wrote:

TOM -
Thanks for your reply reminding us all that amateur radio exists in most countries around the world,  I see that both of our examples dealt with transmitting from a different location than reflected on our operating permits, but still within the same regulatory jurisdiction, not across international boundaries in different IARU regions.  Since the UK's internal regulations recommend that you to use the / and a suffix letter, by all means comply with them.  As noted, our FCC abandoned that practice almost 50 years ago.  I will continue recommending that folks read the excellent on-line WSJT documentation to learn about the conversation practices that differ from those used on voice, CW, or other digital modes. 
--
Karl  WA8NVW  OH
WA8NVW@...
in WSJTX@groups.io




groups@...
 

On 23/07/2021 18:36, Reino Talarmo wrote:
Hi Brian,
Bill gave explanation why /P is possible with standard call signs, it is not
a length issue as such:
The reason /P and /R are different is that they are both used in certain
contest exchanges, and since nonstandard calls are not supported in contest
modes, special source encoding rules are used for /P and /R suffixes.
73, Reino OH3mA

I operate /p in the UK and use the callsign G8AOE/P -- the messages include
my locator. This may not be true for longer callsigns.
"Tom Melvin" <tom@tkrh.co.uk> wrote:

Please remember Amateur Radio is world wide - so FCC rules may not
apply and people should be advised to check their own licence wording.

In the UK while it is not mandatory to send /P, /A etc it is RECOMMENDED.
The wording in the UK licence also says "MAY" to make this absolutely clear. I've had examination questions regarding this removed from the pool of questions more than once so it seems to be widely misunderstood.

Personally I don't believe the UK licence allows the use of /R whatever that means.

Thank you for reminding everyone that licence conditions vary by administration Tom. I was about to do the same again.

73
Roger
G#4HZA
Moderator


 

Thanks Tom,

 

4 character grid locator is a pretty wide area – in my case (IO85) it covers Lothian, Borders and a piece of Northumberland. Not easily locatable if I’m causing interference. Maybe to meet this license condition we have to add a plain text message every now and again with the 6-character locator, or a CW ident with call and grid.

 

73 Phil GM3ZZA (IO85FU69)

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Tom Melvin
Sent: 23 July 2021 21:58
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Operating portable #FT8 #WSJTX_config

 

Cool

 

The joys of different countries rules :-)

 

I was reading the small print of my licence to confirm it and I also came across when operation from the location (as it’s the same section as /P /A etc) I _guess_ it relates to that - we need to send NGR or Address or ‘couple of other things; or SIX character grid locator - we  send 4 by default, some contest modes will do the 6 but generally only 4 - another thing to possible trip us up. Thankfully Ofcom is not really that pro-active in policing the bands. If cause interference with MOD and other commercial users may be different.

 

Will just play radio and try to get on 

Regards

 

Tom

GM8MJV

 



On 21 Jul 2021, at 05:12, Karl Beckman <wa8nvw@...> wrote:

 

TOM -
Thanks for your reply reminding us all that amateur radio exists in most countries around the world,  I see that both of our examples dealt with transmitting from a different location than reflected on our operating permits, but still within the same regulatory jurisdiction, not across international boundaries in different IARU regions.  Since the UK's internal regulations recommend that you to use the / and a suffix letter, by all means comply with them.  As noted, our FCC abandoned that practice almost 50 years ago.  I will continue recommending that folks read the excellent on-line WSJT documentation to learn about the conversation practices that differ from those used on voice, CW, or other digital modes. 
--
Karl  WA8NVW  OH
WA8NVW@...
in WSJTX@groups.io

 

 


--
73 Phil GM3ZZA


Tom Melvin
 

If Philip

I took it to mean when  at 'a different location’ to main licence address - so unless you do /P (or /A here) not an issue.

Yup IO85 is large - IO85mu49 I never did work out the 10 char grid for here.:-)

Tom
GM8MJV

On 24 Jul 2021, at 09:38, Philip Rose via groups.io <gm3zza@...> wrote:

Thanks Tom,
 
4 character grid locator is a pretty wide area – in my case (IO85) it covers Lothian, Borders and a piece of Northumberland. Not easily locatable if I’m causing interference. Maybe to meet this license condition we have to add a plain text message every now and again with the 6-character locator, or a CW ident with call and grid.
 
73 Phil GM3ZZA (IO85FU69)
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Tom Melvin
Sent: 23 July 2021 21:58
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Operating portable #FT8 #WSJTX_config
 
Cool
 
The joys of different countries rules :-)
 
I was reading the small print of my licence to confirm it and I also came across when operation from the location (as it’s the same section as /P /A etc) I _guess_ it relates to that - we need to send NGR or Address or ‘couple of other things; or SIX character grid locator - we  send 4 by default, some contest modes will do the 6 but generally only 4 - another thing to possible trip us up. Thankfully Ofcom is not really that pro-active in policing the bands. If cause interference with MOD and other commercial users may be different.
 
Will just play radio and try to get on 
Regards
 
Tom
GM8MJV
 


On 21 Jul 2021, at 05:12, Karl Beckman <wa8nvw@...> wrote:
 

TOM -
Thanks for your reply reminding us all that amateur radio exists in most countries around the world,  I see that both of our examples dealt with transmitting from a different location than reflected on our operating permits, but still within the same regulatory jurisdiction, not across international boundaries in different IARU regions.  Since the UK's internal regulations recommend that you to use the / and a suffix letter, by all means comply with them.  As noted, our FCC abandoned that practice almost 50 years ago.  I will continue recommending that folks read the excellent on-line WSJT documentation to learn about the conversation practices that differ from those used on voice, CW, or other digital modes.  
-- 
Karl  WA8NVW  OH
WA8NVW@...
in WSJTX@groups.io 

 
 

-- 
73 Phil GM3ZZA