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locked "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

W4JBB
 

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I *know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies; however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB
Sam Birnbaum
 

HI Joel,
You are operating correctly. Hopefully that person you just had a QSO with just made a mistake by not moving to a clear offset before starting to call CQ.If it was not a mistake than they are the one at fault. 

73,
Sam W2JDB

-----Original Message-----
From: W4JBB <joel.b.black@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2022 6:34 am
Subject: [WSJTX] "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I *know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies; however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB
chas cartmel
 

I use 'hold TX freq' as my signal if in the clear will not be interfered with by other station all calling the other station on his, therefore the same, frequency. Also it eliminated the annoying habit of stations responding to my CQ on my frequency then when that QSO ends calling CQ on the frequency I was using.


73 Charlie
G4EST
www.g4est.me.uk
Stay safe out there

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of W4JBB
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2022 11:34 AM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I *know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies; however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB




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Gary trock
 

I’m still a newby but the FT8 user manual states a station responding to a CQ should move on after the QSO, not take over the frequency. The behavior you describe IS rude
Gary N8GT

On Jun 29, 2022, at 9:13 AM, W4JBB <joel.b.black@...> wrote:

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I *know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies; however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB
Dennis W1UE
 

Joel

You are operating correctly.

Dennis W1UE

On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 9:13 AM W4JBB <joel.b.black@...> wrote:

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to
remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to
operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I
*know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the
difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and
then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to
have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun
playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening
to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I
start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies;
however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in
the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop
calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out
where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I
was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of
our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely
hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's
what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just
not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB
Reino Talarmo
 

When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.
Hi Joel,

First of all you a following a good practice yourself!

The one who highjacks your frequency is really bad behaving operator. He even needs to change his transmission timeslot to do so!

73, Reino OH3mA
Ronnie Hull - W5SUM
 

I find a clear spot and have the “holdTX freq” box checked
Keeps me from being one of those rude operators (and there are plenty) who will work someone then start sending CQ on top of that person.
Let the RX roam but keep your tx on a fixed spot
Just my .02 worth
Ron W5SUM

On Jun 29, 2022, at 8:13 AM, W4JBB <joel.b.black@...> wrote:

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I *know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies; however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB
Robert Lorenzini
 

Thank you Ron.

Bob - wd6dod

On 6/29/2022 7:32 AM, Ronnie Hull wrote:
I find a clear spot and have the “holdTX freq” box checked
Keeps me from being one of those rude operators (and there are plenty) who will work someone then start sending CQ on top of that person.
Let the RX roam but keep your tx on a fixed spot
Just my .02 worth
Ron W5SUM
On Jun 29, 2022, at 8:13 AM, W4JBB <joel.b.black@...> wrote:

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I *know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies; however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB
Gary trock
 

I do exactly the same.
Gary N8GT

On Jun 29, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Ronnie Hull <w5sum@...> wrote:

I find a clear spot and have the “holdTX freq” box checked
Keeps me from being one of those rude operators (and there are plenty) who will work someone then start sending CQ on top of that person.
Let the RX roam but keep your tx on a fixed spot
Just my .02 worth
Ron W5SUM
On Jun 29, 2022, at 8:13 AM, W4JBB <joel.b.black@...> wrote:

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I *know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies; however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB
Tom V. Segalstad
 

Hi Joel,

All use of radio is governed by the ITU (International Telecommunications Union) Radio Regulations.

These specify that all radio operation should be «such as to achieve minimum interference» (for instance referenced to Article 4.3 and Article 15.9 in the ITU RR from 2020).

A frequency in use should not be taken over by another radio station, unless permission is given by the first frequency user.

73 from Tom (LA4LN)


Fra: W4JBB<mailto:joel.b.black@...>
Sendt: onsdag 29. juni 2022 kl. 15.13
Til: main@WSJTX.groups.io<mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Emne: [WSJTX] "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

I am not sure if I operate this way because this is how I *seem* to remember I operated JT-65 or if I operate this way because I prefer to operate QRP (before the "it's a weak signal mode" police jump in, yes, I *know* it's a weak signal mode. I just operate QRP and I know the difference) or if I operate this way for some other reason but...

(1) is it more proper to find a clear frequency on which to transmit and then "hold" that frequency jumping around on Rx or (2) is it more proper to have both Tx and Rx jump all over the place. I've only recently begun playing with FT-8 but I will usually find a clear frequency after listening to two or three cycles, and then start calling CQ. After I log the QSO, I start calling CQ again. More often than not, I will get more replies; however, sometimes (and this happens more on a crowded band like 40 m in the morning), I will no longer get any replies to my CQ. When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.

Look, I know it's not *my* frequency but it's rude. It would be rude if I was having a conversation with someone and you walked up in the middle of our conversation and just started talking about yourself completely hijacking the conversation. Yes, I'll generally just walk away and that's what I do on FT-8 but is there some etiquette I'm missing or do people just not know better?

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.

73,
Joel - W4JBB







--
Tom (LA4LN)
Philip Rose
 

The OP did not say that the other operator had switched his timeslot.

If the other operator stays on his original timeslot, he is not transmitting over you but anyone who replies on your frequency in your RX timeslot.

73 Phil GM3ZZA/GQ3ZZA (for 1 more day).

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Reino Talarmo
Sent: 29 June 2022 17:08
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.
Hi Joel,

First of all you a following a good practice yourself!

The one who highjacks your frequency is really bad behaving operator. He even needs to change his transmission timeslot to do so!

73, Reino OH3mA









--
73 Phil GM3ZZA
Reino Talarmo
 

He said " When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with."

I took that literally that the other station was transmitting on his timeslot! Well, I may be wrong.
In split operation it does not really matter, if the QSO party continue on the same timeslot as he used on the QSO. As the split operation is not that common, most users consider to have two "own" timeslots (TX and RX) on their frequency. In that sense it was a rude action especially as he is not using split himself (he moved on that frequency). If you move to the same frequency, then you are not using split and you should move again for your own CQ.

It is so difficult to explain as there are actually two "bands" one for even and one for odd timeslot!

73, Reino

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Philip Rose via groups.io
Sent: 29. kesäkuutata 2022 23:32
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

The OP did not say that the other operator had switched his timeslot.

If the other operator stays on his original timeslot, he is not transmitting over you but anyone who replies on your frequency in your RX timeslot.

73 Phil GM3ZZA/GQ3ZZA (for 1 more day).

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Reino Talarmo
Sent: 29 June 2022 17:08
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.
Hi Joel,

First of all you a following a good practice yourself!

The one who highjacks your frequency is really bad behaving operator. He even needs to change his transmission timeslot to do so!

73, Reino OH3mA









--
73 Phil GM3ZZA
W4JBB
 

Sorry, they were on the same timeslot as me.

Thanks for the tips and advice. I will continue doing what I’m doing I just wanted to make sure what I was doing was “standard.”

73,
Joel - W4JBB

On Jun 29, 2022, at 23:45, Reino Talarmo <reino.talarmo@...> wrote:

He said " When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with."

I took that literally that the other station was transmitting on his timeslot! Well, I may be wrong.
In split operation it does not really matter, if the QSO party continue on the same timeslot as he used on the QSO. As the split operation is not that common, most users consider to have two "own" timeslots (TX and RX) on their frequency. In that sense it was a rude action especially as he is not using split himself (he moved on that frequency). If you move to the same frequency, then you are not using split and you should move again for your own CQ.

It is so difficult to explain as there are actually two "bands" one for even and one for odd timeslot!

73, Reino


-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io> [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io <mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io>] On Behalf Of Philip Rose via groups.io <http://groups.io/>
Sent: 29. kesäkuutata 2022 23:32
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io <mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

The OP did not say that the other operator had switched his timeslot.

If the other operator stays on his original timeslot, he is not transmitting over you but anyone who replies on your frequency in your RX timeslot.

73 Phil GM3ZZA/GQ3ZZA (for 1 more day).

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Reino Talarmo
Sent: 29 June 2022 17:08
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io <mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] "Hold Tx Freq" Check Box #QSO_practices

When I stop calling and start watching the waterfall, invariably someone has camped out where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.
Hi Joel,

First of all you a following a good practice yourself!

The one who highjacks your frequency is really bad behaving operator. He even needs to change his transmission timeslot to do so!

73, Reino OH3mA









--
73 Phil GM3ZZA
William Smith
 

I've seen stranger results. When someone responds on 'my' audio frequency I usually jump up or down 100 Hz just to keep QRM down, and I've had people follow me to 'my' new frequency. And again when I move again, so they are chasing me all over the waterfall.

Unless there's some other program out there that does this deliberately, I can only imagine that they are watching carefully and double-clicking on my response, which indicates at the very least a misunderstanding with how FT8 works.

I don't let it bother me, but it's happened more than once, so I just chalk it up to One Of Those Things.

73, Willie N1JBJ

On Jun 29, 2022, at 6:34 AM, W4JBB <joel.b.black@...> wrote:

where I was calling CQ *and* they're the last person I had a QSO with.
Bob G8HGN
 

I recently put up a 10M dipole to sample some of the good conditions, I normally only work on VHF/UHF. It surprised me that with so many of my contacts on FT8 the CQer or caller moved to my offset in the waterfall. This not not the norm on VHF/UHF.

Maybe there are just so many more on HF that a small percentage of callers would do this, but it seems a bigger problem. Or perhaps those on VHF/UHF are more discerning?

73 Bob G8HGN :0)
Chuck Gelm
 

On 7/1/22 04:28, Bob G8HGN wrote:
I recently put up a 10M dipole to sample some of the good conditions, I normally only work on VHF/UHF. It surprised me that with so many of my contacts on FT8 the CQer or caller moved to my offset in the waterfall. This not not the norm on VHF/UHF.

Maybe there are just so many more on HF that a small percentage of callers would do this, but it seems a bigger problem. Or perhaps those on VHF/UHF are more discerning?

73 Bob G8HGN :0)
Hi, Bob:

I would not expect a 'CQer' to change frequency when a reply is received.

3s, Chuck
joe haughey
 

Joel it is just an Observation,  it happens at my geolocation too,  but maybe a weak signal station or a more distant station or one in the middle is picking up an Opening created By Activity and when he or she or ai transmits on the same frequency the antenna reads this transmission at Your Location.

The GUI Waterfall gives Information.
A 3D Waterfall such as the sdr console has, would or might be beneficial to observations of weeker or distant or one's in the middle,  language is tricky Joel when applying known science in an era

regards

m1evn

On Friday, 1 July 2022 at 10:28:25 BST, Bob G8HGN <g8hgn73@...> wrote:

I recently put up a 10M dipole to sample some of the good conditions, I normally only work on VHF/UHF. It surprised me that with so many of my contacts on FT8 the CQer or caller moved to my offset in the waterfall. This not not the norm on VHF/UHF.

Maybe there are just so many more on HF that a small percentage of callers would do this, but it seems a bigger problem. Or perhaps those on VHF/UHF are more discerning?

73 Bob G8HGN :0)
Gary - AG0N
 

On Jun 29, 2022, at 04:34, W4JBB <joel.b.black@...> wrote:

Am I operating incorrectly. If I'm wrong, I'll change how I'm operating.
When JT65 was “the” mode, we operated purely simplex. Call the station on his frequency and then QSY to the next QSO when done with that one. I don’t operate JT65 these days, so I don’t know what the accepted practice is for that mode. To me, it makes more sense to stay simplex, but that’s just me. I will NOT work someone who calls me simplex on the narrow modes, like FT8, etc., unless I don’t notice that they are simplex, and then I’ll move. Just my preference.

73, Gary - AG0N
Bob G8HGN
 

Hi Chuck,

No, nor would I but it happens frquently. Station calls CQ, I reply on a different offset, and they come to my offset. Probably not got "Hold TX Freq" checked?

73 Bob G8hgn
hisami dejima
 

Hi Joel,

Very interesting topic.
I see that scene from time to time.
On the contrary, I confess to had such shameful operation.
Of course, it was not on purpose.

It happened while testing JTDX.
JTDX's auto sequence have many options that can be combined.
If there is a call from a third station after an S&P operation,
it will change to a RUN operation.

The "1QSO" button avoids this.

Should not call Running station on TX=RX frequency without set "1QSO" button,
it could result to hijacking the frequency.
It appears that some JTDX users are unaware of that button and mechanism.

This is my guess.

73, Hisami 7L4IOU
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