locked #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing #FlexRadio #Timesync #FT8


Mark Griffith <mdgriffith2003@...>
 

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN


Paul
 

Right click on the time display in the lower right corner of your Windoz
screen,
click on Adjust date/time
click on Internet Time
click on Change Settings
untick Synchronize with an Internet time server

You should be ok now.

(been there, done that)

Paul, W8AEF

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark
Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 2:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a
subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives,
but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this
before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as
an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar
server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in
my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty
familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first
released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too
slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable
version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed
everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my
life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10
years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync
correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2
seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is
working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds
off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and
everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now
off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that
will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In
all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do
something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a
2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version
2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN


Paul
 

Formatting screwed up on my copy from the internet so here it is again.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul
via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:56 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not
Syncing

Right click on the time display in the lower right corner of your Windoz
screen,

click on Adjust date/time

click on Internet Time

click on Change Settings

untick Synchronize with an Internet time server

You should be ok now.

(been there, done that)

Paul, W8AEF

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark
Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 2:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a
subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives,
but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this
before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as
an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar
server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in
my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty
familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first
released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too
slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable
version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed
everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my
life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10
years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync
correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2
seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is
working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds
off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and
everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now
off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that
will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In
all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do
something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a
2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version
2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN


Mark Griffith <mdgriffith2003@...>
 

Paul,
Thanks for the input.  Unfortunately, I have already done that, and just confirmed that setting has not changed.  Bummer.
MarkKD0QYN

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 06:56:21 PM CDT, Paul via groups.io <w8aef@...> wrote:

Right click on the time display in the lower right corner of your Windoz
screen,
click on Adjust date/time
click on Internet Time
click on Change Settings
untick Synchronize with an Internet time server

You should be ok now.

(been there, done that)

Paul, W8AEF

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark
Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 2:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a
subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives,
but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this
before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as
an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar
server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in
my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty
familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first
released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too
slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable
version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed
everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my
life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10
years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync
correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2
seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is
working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds
off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and
everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now
off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that
will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In
all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do
something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a
2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version
2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN


William Smith
 

Wierd, do you have some other time-setting program that you forgot you installed, like Dimension 4 or others? Some of those wake up every few hours and make a step change, which sounds like what's happening to you.

73, Willie N1JBJ

On Aug 10, 2022, at 10:59 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io <mdgriffith2003@...> wrote:

Paul,
Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I have already done that, and just confirmed that setting has not changed. Bummer.
MarkKD0QYN

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 06:56:21 PM CDT, Paul via groups.io <w8aef@...> wrote:

Right click on the time display in the lower right corner of your Windoz
screen,
click on Adjust date/time
click on Internet Time
click on Change Settings
untick Synchronize with an Internet time server

You should be ok now.

(been there, done that)

Paul, W8AEF

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark
Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 2:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group. I apologize if I am bringing up a
subject that has been worked over many times. I have searched the archives,
but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly. Never did this
before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as
an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar
server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in
my log using FT9 and JT65. WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty
familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first
released. I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too
slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11. So I put a stable
version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed
everything. This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my
life. (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio. Being working great for 10
years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync
correctly so FT8 decodes correctly. Here is a screen shot:

All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off. If I slow my computer clock by 2
seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking. I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is
working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds
off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE! It was working correctly and
everything decoded. After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now
off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that
will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that. In
all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do
something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a
2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode. Oh, this is WSJT-X version
2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN


 

I know you did what Paul recommended. Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu). Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services. Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN


Tim Dawson
 

Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended. Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu). Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services. Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


Mark Griffith <mdgriffith2003@...>
 

Dan,
Good call, but the Windows time service has been disabled.  Again, bummer.
MarkKD0QYN

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 08:20:03 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <k4shq@...> wrote:

I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN


Mark Griffith <mdgriffith2003@...>
 

Dan,
Yeah, DNS is working.  Here is the output of ntpq:

C:\Users\KD0QYN>ntpq -pn
     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
+129.250.35.251  129.250.35.222   2 u   78  128  177   32.981   -1.639   7.341
+104.194.8.227   164.67.62.199    2 u  105  128  177   61.982  +15.069  11.550
*23.157.160.168  129.6.15.28      2 u   75  128  177   34.962   +9.784  22.311

Today, it was working again for some time and now is off time again by the same amount.  The offset amount above looks large, but is in milliseconds so this is not a factor.

Thanks for the help.

MarkKD0QYN

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 09:23:56 AM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:

Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


Tim Dawson
 

You might want to try hard coding some NTP server IP's that you know work in the config file rather than the "pool" NTP entries. I have noticed at times that some of the pool entries can go unresponsive, and lead to a situation similar to what you are seeing.  I hard code mine to entries that are known to be reliable, and generally stay within milliseconds.

And yes, your ntpq output looks good.  Jitter is a lot higher than what I typically see, but I don't see any way that can get to 2.5 seconds.

As others have noticed, it almost looks like something is stepping your clock outside of ntpd . . . Have you considered logging the ntpq output and seeing if there is anything to see when time sync gets lost?

Not sure what else to say . . . ntp looks like it is working fine . . .

Oh, and your poll interval seems rather short, as does reach, which does tend to indicate a possible loss of connectivity (but then again, the config can have some effect on that).  If you can post your config file, that would be good.

This is what I see on my system:

 ntpq -pn

     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay offset  jitter
==============================================================================
 127.127.1.0        .LOCL.          10 l  60d   64    0    0.000 +0.000   0.000
+204.34.198.40   .IRIG.           1 u  557 1024  335   93.940 -3.587   0.567
*204.34.198.41   .IRIG.           1 u 1054 1024  377   93.596 -2.930   0.510
+132.163.97.6    .NIST.           1 u 120m 1024  300   27.330 +10.576   2.139

(This box serves to other systems on my network, hence the "LOCL" entry to keep it running for internal sync if I lose external . . . Not relevant in your case . . .)

- Tim

On 08/11/2022 03:37 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
Dan,
Yeah, DNS is working.  Here is the output of ntpq:

C:\Users\KD0QYN>ntpq -pn
     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
+129.250.35.251  129.250.35.222   2 u   78  128  177   32.981   -1.639   7.341
+104.194.8.227   164.67.62.199    2 u  105  128  177   61.982  +15.069  11.550
*23.157.160.168  129.6.15.28      2 u   75  128  177   34.962   +9.784  22.311

Today, it was working again for some time and now is off time again by the same amount.  The offset amount above looks large, but is in milliseconds so this is not a factor.

Thanks for the help.

MarkKD0QYN

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 09:23:56 AM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Tim Dawson

972-567-9360


Mark Griffith <mdgriffith2003@...>
 

Tim,
Interesting.  I just took the defaults when Meinberg was installed.  Here is the pool list:
 server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
 server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
 server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7

Do you have any time servers to recommend?
I did notice that the time seemed correct when it was sync'd to 104.194.8.227
When the time relative to WSJT-X went off, it had switched to 23.157.160.168 
I guess that *might* be a clue?

MarkKD0QYN

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:10:46 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:

You might want to try hard coding some NTP server IP's that you know
work in the config file rather than the "pool" NTP entries. I have
noticed at times that some of the pool entries can go unresponsive, and
lead to a situation similar to what you are seeing.  I hard code mine to
entries that are known to be reliable, and generally stay within
milliseconds.

And yes, your ntpq output looks good.  Jitter is a lot higher than what
I typically see, but I don't see any way that can get to 2.5 seconds.

As others have noticed, it almost looks like something is stepping your
clock outside of ntpd . . . Have you considered logging the ntpq output
and seeing if there is anything to see when time sync gets lost?

Not sure what else to say . . . ntp looks like it is working fine . . .

Oh, and your poll interval seems rather short, as does reach, which does
tend to indicate a possible loss of connectivity (but then again, the
config can have some effect on that).  If you can post your config file,
that would be good.

This is what I see on my system:

 ntpq -pn

     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay offset 
jitter
==============================================================================
 127.127.1.0        .LOCL.          10 l  60d   64    0    0.000
+0.000   0.000
+204.34.198.40   .IRIG.           1 u  557 1024  335   93.940 -3.587   0.567
*204.34.198.41   .IRIG.           1 u 1054 1024  377   93.596 -2.930   0.510
+132.163.97.6    .NIST.           1 u 120m 1024  300   27.330 +10.576  
2.139

(This box serves to other systems on my network, hence the "LOCL" entry
to keep it running for internal sync if I lose external . . . Not
relevant in your case . . .)

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 03:37 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
  Dan,
Yeah, DNS is working.  Here is the output of ntpq:

C:\Users\KD0QYN>ntpq -pn
       remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
+129.250.35.251  129.250.35.222   2 u   78  128  177   32.981   -1.639   7.341
+104.194.8.227   164.67.62.199    2 u  105  128  177   61.982  +15.069  11.550
*23.157.160.168  129.6.15.28      2 u   75  128  177   34.962   +9.784  22.311

Today, it was working again for some time and now is off time again by the same amount.  The offset amount above looks large, but is in milliseconds so this is not a factor.

Thanks for the help.

MarkKD0QYN

      On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 09:23:56 AM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
 
  Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
 
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Tim Dawson

972-567-9360


Tim Dawson
 

I've been doing this for decades, and am using Stratum-1 servers, which I am not sure are accessible in general (it's been so long, I don't recall if I applied for something or not . . . ). You can try the ones I have in my config (seen in my ntpq output below) and see if they will respond to you, since those are known good.

My suggestion would be to resolve each of the x.us.pool.ntp.org targets, and ping test some of the candidates, and find an entry from each with stable connectivity, and a reasonable (and steady) ping time, and code those IP addresses instead of the FQDN entries in your config. Make sure that you have a minimum of three, so that if one is lost, you can sync to something.  If one appears way off from the others, dump it and find another.

This way, upstream DNS failures will not impact your time sync, and you will know that ntp will not change to a server that might be dead . . .

NTP is far too mature and stable (decades) for this to be an inherent problem with it, and Meinberg is nothing more than a convenient Windows compile of what is regarded as the reference NTP code base, used on just about any platform out there.

- Tim

On 08/11/2022 04:17 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
Tim,
Interesting.  I just took the defaults when Meinberg was installed.  Here is the pool list:
 server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
 server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
 server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7

Do you have any time servers to recommend?
I did notice that the time seemed correct when it was sync'd to 104.194.8.227
When the time relative to WSJT-X went off, it had switched to 23.157.160.168
I guess that *might* be a clue?

MarkKD0QYN

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:10:46 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
You might want to try hard coding some NTP server IP's that you know
work in the config file rather than the "pool" NTP entries. I have
noticed at times that some of the pool entries can go unresponsive, and
lead to a situation similar to what you are seeing.  I hard code mine to
entries that are known to be reliable, and generally stay within
milliseconds.

And yes, your ntpq output looks good.  Jitter is a lot higher than what
I typically see, but I don't see any way that can get to 2.5 seconds.

As others have noticed, it almost looks like something is stepping your
clock outside of ntpd . . . Have you considered logging the ntpq output
and seeing if there is anything to see when time sync gets lost?

Not sure what else to say . . . ntp looks like it is working fine . . .

Oh, and your poll interval seems rather short, as does reach, which does
tend to indicate a possible loss of connectivity (but then again, the
config can have some effect on that).  If you can post your config file,
that would be good.

This is what I see on my system:

 ntpq -pn

     remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay offset
jitter
==============================================================================
 127.127.1.0        .LOCL.          10 l  60d   64    0    0.000
+0.000   0.000
+204.34.198.40   .IRIG.           1 u  557 1024  335   93.940 -3.587   0.567
*204.34.198.41   .IRIG.           1 u 1054 1024  377   93.596 -2.930   0.510
+132.163.97.6    .NIST.           1 u 120m 1024  300   27.330 +10.576
2.139

(This box serves to other systems on my network, hence the "LOCL" entry
to keep it running for internal sync if I lose external . . . Not
relevant in your case . . .)

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 03:37 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
  Dan,
Yeah, DNS is working.  Here is the output of ntpq:

C:\Users\KD0QYN>ntpq -pn
       remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
+129.250.35.251  129.250.35.222   2 u   78  128  177   32.981   -1.639   7.341
+104.194.8.227   164.67.62.199    2 u  105  128  177   61.982  +15.069  11.550
*23.157.160.168  129.6.15.28      2 u   75  128  177   34.962   +9.784  22.311

Today, it was working again for some time and now is off time again by the same amount.  The offset amount above looks large, but is in milliseconds so this is not a factor.

Thanks for the help.

MarkKD0QYN

      On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 09:23:56 AM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
  Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Tim Dawson

972-567-9360


Chuck Moore <wd4hxg@...>
 

Not only do the pool servers seem to vanish periodically, the Domain
Names just seem to quit responding. I have tried a number of NTP
server addresses and the best I have found is: time.apple.com

Others such as time.windows.com & time.nist.com vanish frequently.
When they quit responding, you box may quit trying to reach NTP
Servers, depending on settings in services.msc under Windows Time.


Mark Griffith <mdgriffith2003@...>
 

Tim,

Please don't get me wrong, I also have used ntp for decades and it is well vetted and works as it should.  If a particular ntp server were to export an incorrect time, it would surely be quickly found and fixed.  I just found it interesting that the time bump happened at what *seemed* like the same time the focus for the time server also changed.  Probably nothing.

I'm thinking this is more to do with the path the FT-8 signal takes from the Flex radio, through PowerSDR, then through a virtual audio cable, and finally to the WSJT-X application.  Perhaps the time is correct at first and then a buffer fills or something like that and the signal to WSJT-X gets delayed by 2.5 seconds.

I've done this complete setup a few times and the defaults have always been good.  Maybe I need to examine this closer.  I don't think a time server is the problem.

However, I will change the server pool settings and see what happens.

Thanks for the input.
Mark
KD0QYN

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:59:13 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:

I've been doing this for decades, and am using Stratum-1 servers, which
I am not sure are accessible in general (it's been so long, I don't
recall if I applied for something or not . . . ). You can try the ones I
have in my config (seen in my ntpq output below) and see if they will
respond to you, since those are known good.

My suggestion would be to resolve each of the x.us.pool.ntp.org targets,
and ping test some of the candidates, and find an entry from each with
stable connectivity, and a reasonable (and steady) ping time, and code
those IP addresses instead of the FQDN entries in your config. Make sure
that you have a minimum of three, so that if one is lost, you can sync
to something.  If one appears way off from the others, dump it and find
another.

This way, upstream DNS failures will not impact your time sync, and you
will know that ntp will not change to a server that might be dead . . .

NTP is far too mature and stable (decades) for this to be an inherent
problem with it, and Meinberg is nothing more than a convenient Windows
compile of what is regarded as the reference NTP code base, used on just
about any platform out there.

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 04:17 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
  Tim,
Interesting.  I just took the defaults when Meinberg was installed.  Here is the pool list:
   server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
   server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
   server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7

Do you have any time servers to recommend?
I did notice that the time seemed correct when it was sync'd to 104.194.8.227
When the time relative to WSJT-X went off, it had switched to 23.157.160.168
I guess that *might* be a clue?

MarkKD0QYN

      On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:10:46 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
 
  You might want to try hard coding some NTP server IP's that you know
work in the config file rather than the "pool" NTP entries. I have
noticed at times that some of the pool entries can go unresponsive, and
lead to a situation similar to what you are seeing.  I hard code mine to
entries that are known to be reliable, and generally stay within
milliseconds.

And yes, your ntpq output looks good.  Jitter is a lot higher than what
I typically see, but I don't see any way that can get to 2.5 seconds.

As others have noticed, it almost looks like something is stepping your
clock outside of ntpd . . . Have you considered logging the ntpq output
and seeing if there is anything to see when time sync gets lost?

Not sure what else to say . . . ntp looks like it is working fine . . .

Oh, and your poll interval seems rather short, as does reach, which does
tend to indicate a possible loss of connectivity (but then again, the
config can have some effect on that).  If you can post your config file,
that would be good.

This is what I see on my system:

   ntpq -pn

       remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay offset
jitter
==============================================================================
   127.127.1.0        .LOCL.          10 l  60d   64    0    0.000
+0.000   0.000
+204.34.198.40   .IRIG.           1 u  557 1024  335   93.940 -3.587   0.567
*204.34.198.41   .IRIG.           1 u 1054 1024  377   93.596 -2.930   0.510
+132.163.97.6    .NIST.           1 u 120m 1024  300   27.330 +10.576
2.139

(This box serves to other systems on my network, hence the "LOCL" entry
to keep it running for internal sync if I lose external . . . Not
relevant in your case . . .)

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 03:37 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
    Dan,
Yeah, DNS is working.  Here is the output of ntpq:

C:\Users\KD0QYN>ntpq -pn
         remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
+129.250.35.251  129.250.35.222   2 u   78  128  177   32.981   -1.639   7.341
+104.194.8.227   164.67.62.199    2 u  105  128  177   61.982  +15.069  11.550
*23.157.160.168  129.6.15.28      2 u   75  128  177   34.962   +9.784  22.311

Today, it was working again for some time and now is off time again by the same amount.  The offset amount above looks large, but is in milliseconds so this is not a factor.

Thanks for the help.

MarkKD0QYN

        On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 09:23:56 AM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
   
    Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
   
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Tim Dawson

972-567-9360


Tim Dawson
 

We are talking about ntp here, not the inherently broken Whinderp time kludge, so a single server going down will *NOT* be an issue if others are configured. Myself, I tend to use the "authoritative" servers (such as nist) since the others *are* transient.

Myself, I would not even trust Apple to pick up dog crap, but opinions vary . . .

On August 11, 2022 7:09:18 PM CDT, "Chuck Moore via groups.io" <wd4hxg@...> wrote:
Not only do the pool servers seem to vanish periodically, the Domain
Names just seem to quit responding. I have tried a number of NTP
server addresses and the best I have found is: time.apple.com

Others such as time.windows.com & time.nist.com vanish frequently.
When they quit responding, you box may quit trying to reach NTP
Servers, depending on settings in services.msc under Windows Time.




--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


Tim Dawson
 

The key may be something else grabbing the NTP port, breaking NTP connectivity (thus the server change), and that other process dorfing the clock. The key would be to log when that happens, and then hopefully be able to correlate it to other activity in the system logs.

I can't fathom a 2.5 second audio delay, but then again, this *IS* a Windows box, so anything is possible.

Is it a decent multicore box, or something older with low memory and not much processor? If the latter, a stutter if memory fills or some big process pages in is not out of the question . . .

On August 11, 2022 7:10:46 PM CDT, "Mark Griffith via groups.io" <mdgriffith2003@...> wrote:
Tim,

Please don't get me wrong, I also have used ntp for decades and it is well vetted and works as it should.  If a particular ntp server were to export an incorrect time, it would surely be quickly found and fixed.  I just found it interesting that the time bump happened at what *seemed* like the same time the focus for the time server also changed.  Probably nothing.

I'm thinking this is more to do with the path the FT-8 signal takes from the Flex radio, through PowerSDR, then through a virtual audio cable, and finally to the WSJT-X application.  Perhaps the time is correct at first and then a buffer fills or something like that and the signal to WSJT-X gets delayed by 2.5 seconds.

I've done this complete setup a few times and the defaults have always been good.  Maybe I need to examine this closer.  I don't think a time server is the problem.

However, I will change the server pool settings and see what happens.

Thanks for the input.
Mark
KD0QYN

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:59:13 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:

I've been doing this for decades, and am using Stratum-1 servers, which
I am not sure are accessible in general (it's been so long, I don't
recall if I applied for something or not . . . ). You can try the ones I
have in my config (seen in my ntpq output below) and see if they will
respond to you, since those are known good.

My suggestion would be to resolve each of the x.us.pool.ntp.org targets,
and ping test some of the candidates, and find an entry from each with
stable connectivity, and a reasonable (and steady) ping time, and code
those IP addresses instead of the FQDN entries in your config. Make sure
that you have a minimum of three, so that if one is lost, you can sync
to something.  If one appears way off from the others, dump it and find
another.

This way, upstream DNS failures will not impact your time sync, and you
will know that ntp will not change to a server that might be dead . . .

NTP is far too mature and stable (decades) for this to be an inherent
problem with it, and Meinberg is nothing more than a convenient Windows
compile of what is regarded as the reference NTP code base, used on just
about any platform out there.

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 04:17 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
  Tim,
Interesting.  I just took the defaults when Meinberg was installed.  Here is the pool list:
   server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
   server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
   server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7

Do you have any time servers to recommend?
I did notice that the time seemed correct when it was sync'd to 104.194.8.227
When the time relative to WSJT-X went off, it had switched to 23.157.160.168
I guess that *might* be a clue?

MarkKD0QYN

      On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:10:46 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
 
  You might want to try hard coding some NTP server IP's that you know
work in the config file rather than the "pool" NTP entries. I have
noticed at times that some of the pool entries can go unresponsive, and
lead to a situation similar to what you are seeing.  I hard code mine to
entries that are known to be reliable, and generally stay within
milliseconds.

And yes, your ntpq output looks good.  Jitter is a lot higher than what
I typically see, but I don't see any way that can get to 2.5 seconds.

As others have noticed, it almost looks like something is stepping your
clock outside of ntpd . . . Have you considered logging the ntpq output
and seeing if there is anything to see when time sync gets lost?

Not sure what else to say . . . ntp looks like it is working fine . . .

Oh, and your poll interval seems rather short, as does reach, which does
tend to indicate a possible loss of connectivity (but then again, the
config can have some effect on that).  If you can post your config file,
that would be good.

This is what I see on my system:

   ntpq -pn

       remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay offset
jitter
==============================================================================
   127.127.1.0        .LOCL.          10 l  60d   64    0    0.000
+0.000   0.000
+204.34.198.40   .IRIG.           1 u  557 1024  335   93.940 -3.587   0.567
*204.34.198.41   .IRIG.           1 u 1054 1024  377   93.596 -2.930   0.510
+132.163.97.6    .NIST.           1 u 120m 1024  300   27.330 +10.576
2.139

(This box serves to other systems on my network, hence the "LOCL" entry
to keep it running for internal sync if I lose external . . . Not
relevant in your case . . .)

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 03:37 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
    Dan,
Yeah, DNS is working.  Here is the output of ntpq:

C:\Users\KD0QYN>ntpq -pn
         remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
+129.250.35.251  129.250.35.222   2 u   78  128  177   32.981   -1.639   7.341
+104.194.8.227   164.67.62.199    2 u  105  128  177   61.982  +15.069  11.550
*23.157.160.168  129.6.15.28      2 u   75  128  177   34.962   +9.784  22.311

Today, it was working again for some time and now is off time again by the same amount.  The offset amount above looks large, but is in milliseconds so this is not a factor.

Thanks for the help.

MarkKD0QYN

        On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 09:23:56 AM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
   
    Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
   
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Tim Dawson

972-567-9360











--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


Mark Griffith <mdgriffith2003@...>
 

Tim,

This is a 4 core, 2.4Ghz CPU with 4GB of RAM, so it should be sufficient.  Perhaps more RAM might help as apps these days are RAM pigs.


Not sure how to setup logging in the ntp config file.  I'll do some research.

I know, in the past, having VAC streaming at 486000 bps and then another buffer reading at something like 414000 causes delays as the faster stream overwrites a buffer, but this sort of behavior has been mostly fixed in newer versions of PowerSDR, and Virtual Audio Cable.  But, as you say, it is hard to imagine that creating a 2.5 second delay.

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 07:20:35 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:

The key may be something else grabbing the NTP port, breaking NTP connectivity (thus the server change), and that other process dorfing the clock. The key would be to log when that happens, and then hopefully be able to correlate it to other activity in the system logs.

I can't fathom a 2.5 second audio delay, but then again, this *IS* a Windows box, so anything is possible.

Is it a decent multicore box, or something older with low memory and not much processor? If the latter, a stutter if memory fills or some big process pages in is not out of the question . . .

On August 11, 2022 7:10:46 PM CDT, "Mark Griffith via groups.io" <mdgriffith2003@...> wrote:
Tim,

Please don't get me wrong, I also have used ntp for decades and it is well vetted and works as it should.  If a particular ntp server were to export an incorrect time, it would surely be quickly found and fixed.  I just found it interesting that the time bump happened at what *seemed* like the same time the focus for the time server also changed.  Probably nothing.

I'm thinking this is more to do with the path the FT-8 signal takes from the Flex radio, through PowerSDR, then through a virtual audio cable, and finally to the WSJT-X application.  Perhaps the time is correct at first and then a buffer fills or something like that and the signal to WSJT-X gets delayed by 2.5 seconds.

I've done this complete setup a few times and the defaults have always been good.  Maybe I need to examine this closer.  I don't think a time server is the problem.

However, I will change the server pool settings and see what happens.

Thanks for the input.
Mark
KD0QYN

    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:59:13 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote: 

I've been doing this for decades, and am using Stratum-1 servers, which
I am not sure are accessible in general (it's been so long, I don't
recall if I applied for something or not . . . ). You can try the ones I
have in my config (seen in my ntpq output below) and see if they will
respond to you, since those are known good.

My suggestion would be to resolve each of the x.us.pool.ntp.org targets,
and ping test some of the candidates, and find an entry from each with
stable connectivity, and a reasonable (and steady) ping time, and code
those IP addresses instead of the FQDN entries in your config. Make sure
that you have a minimum of three, so that if one is lost, you can sync
to something.  If one appears way off from the others, dump it and find
another.

This way, upstream DNS failures will not impact your time sync, and you
will know that ntp will not change to a server that might be dead . . .

NTP is far too mature and stable (decades) for this to be an inherent
problem with it, and Meinberg is nothing more than a convenient Windows
compile of what is regarded as the reference NTP code base, used on just
about any platform out there.

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 04:17 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
  Tim,
Interesting.  I just took the defaults when Meinberg was installed.  Here is the pool list:
   server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
   server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
   server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7

Do you have any time servers to recommend?
I did notice that the time seemed correct when it was sync'd to 104.194.8.227
When the time relative to WSJT-X went off, it had switched to 23.157.160.168
I guess that *might* be a clue?

MarkKD0QYN

      On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:10:46 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
 
  You might want to try hard coding some NTP server IP's that you know
work in the config file rather than the "pool" NTP entries. I have
noticed at times that some of the pool entries can go unresponsive, and
lead to a situation similar to what you are seeing.  I hard code mine to
entries that are known to be reliable, and generally stay within
milliseconds.

And yes, your ntpq output looks good.  Jitter is a lot higher than what
I typically see, but I don't see any way that can get to 2.5 seconds.

As others have noticed, it almost looks like something is stepping your
clock outside of ntpd . . . Have you considered logging the ntpq output
and seeing if there is anything to see when time sync gets lost?

Not sure what else to say . . . ntp looks like it is working fine . . .

Oh, and your poll interval seems rather short, as does reach, which does
tend to indicate a possible loss of connectivity (but then again, the
config can have some effect on that).  If you can post your config file,
that would be good.

This is what I see on my system:

   ntpq -pn

       remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay offset
jitter
==============================================================================
   127.127.1.0        .LOCL.          10 l  60d   64    0    0.000
+0.000   0.000
+204.34.198.40   .IRIG.           1 u  557 1024  335   93.940 -3.587   0.567
*204.34.198.41   .IRIG.           1 u 1054 1024  377   93.596 -2.930   0.510
+132.163.97.6    .NIST.           1 u 120m 1024  300   27.330 +10.576
2.139

(This box serves to other systems on my network, hence the "LOCL" entry
to keep it running for internal sync if I lose external . . . Not
relevant in your case . . .)

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 03:37 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
    Dan,
Yeah, DNS is working.  Here is the output of ntpq:

C:\Users\KD0QYN>ntpq -pn
         remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
+129.250.35.251  129.250.35.222   2 u   78  128  177   32.981   -1.639   7.341
+104.194.8.227   164.67.62.199    2 u  105  128  177   61.982  +15.069  11.550
*23.157.160.168  129.6.15.28      2 u   75  128  177   34.962   +9.784  22.311

Today, it was working again for some time and now is off time again by the same amount.  The offset amount above looks large, but is in milliseconds so this is not a factor.

Thanks for the help.

MarkKD0QYN

        On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 09:23:56 AM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
   
    Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
   
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Tim Dawson

972-567-9360






 




--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


Mark K2EXE
 

I personally use NTP that's geographically close to me. In my case Cornell University runs public NTP so that's my primary home NTP source. Of course when I'm portable I use GPSD and chrony to sync off a dongle but thats a conversation for another thread. Hope that helps 73 Mark K2EXE

On 2022-08-11 19:16, Tim Dawson wrote:
We are talking about ntp here, not the inherently broken Whinderp time
kludge, so a single server going down will *NOT* be an issue if others
are configured. Myself, I tend to use the "authoritative" servers
(such as nist) since the others *are* transient.
Myself, I would not even trust Apple to pick up dog crap, but opinions
vary . . .
On August 11, 2022 7:09:18 PM CDT, "Chuck Moore via groups.io"
<wd4hxg@...> wrote:
Not only do the pool servers seem to vanish periodically, the Domain
Names just seem to quit responding. I have tried a number of NTP
server addresses and the best I have found is: time.apple.com
Others such as time.windows.com & time.nist.com vanish frequently.
When they quit responding, you box may quit trying to reach NTP
Servers, depending on settings in services.msc under Windows Time.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
--
Join my ham radio discord server and follow me on Twitter @K2EXE


Bill Lederer
 

I use poolntp
<https://www.ntppool.org/en/#:~:text=The%20pool.ntp.org%20project,of%20systems%20around%20the%20world.>
for
ultimate source. I sync one or two of my machines to that, and sync the
others to those two internal servers. I also have one of the gps "pucks"
attached to one of the openbsd boxes that I use as an internal time
reference.

I don't use windows for any ham radio work, and have zero (out to many
decimal places) problems out of the box. And the other myriad of problems
that shows up on windows as reported in this list.

w8lvn

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 7:16 PM Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:

We are talking about ntp here, not the inherently broken Whinderp time
kludge, so a single server going down will *NOT* be an issue if others are
configured. Myself, I tend to use the "authoritative" servers (such as
nist) since the others *are* transient.

Myself, I would not even trust Apple to pick up dog crap, but opinions
vary . . .

On August 11, 2022 7:09:18 PM CDT, "Chuck Moore via groups.io" <wd4hxg=
icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Not only do the pool servers seem to vanish periodically, the Domain
Names just seem to quit responding. I have tried a number of NTP
server addresses and the best I have found is: time.apple.com

Others such as time.windows.com & time.nist.com vanish frequently.
When they quit responding, you box may quit trying to reach NTP
Servers, depending on settings in services.msc under Windows Time.




--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.





--
--w8lvn--


Tim Dawson
 

Something as simple as a script running ntpq and writing to a file might give you some idea of when . . .

On August 11, 2022 8:02:35 PM CDT, "Mark Griffith via groups.io" <mdgriffith2003@...> wrote:
Tim,

This is a 4 core, 2.4Ghz CPU with 4GB of RAM, so it should be sufficient.  Perhaps more RAM might help as apps these days are RAM pigs.


Not sure how to setup logging in the ntp config file.  I'll do some research.

I know, in the past, having VAC streaming at 486000 bps and then another buffer reading at something like 414000 causes delays as the faster stream overwrites a buffer, but this sort of behavior has been mostly fixed in newer versions of PowerSDR, and Virtual Audio Cable.  But, as you say, it is hard to imagine that creating a 2.5 second delay.

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 07:20:35 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:

The key may be something else grabbing the NTP port, breaking NTP connectivity (thus the server change), and that other process dorfing the clock. The key would be to log when that happens, and then hopefully be able to correlate it to other activity in the system logs.

I can't fathom a 2.5 second audio delay, but then again, this *IS* a Windows box, so anything is possible.

Is it a decent multicore box, or something older with low memory and not much processor? If the latter, a stutter if memory fills or some big process pages in is not out of the question . . .

On August 11, 2022 7:10:46 PM CDT, "Mark Griffith via groups.io" <mdgriffith2003@...> wrote:
Tim,

Please don't get me wrong, I also have used ntp for decades and it is well vetted and works as it should.  If a particular ntp server were to export an incorrect time, it would surely be quickly found and fixed.  I just found it interesting that the time bump happened at what *seemed* like the same time the focus for the time server also changed.  Probably nothing.

I'm thinking this is more to do with the path the FT-8 signal takes from the Flex radio, through PowerSDR, then through a virtual audio cable, and finally to the WSJT-X application.  Perhaps the time is correct at first and then a buffer fills or something like that and the signal to WSJT-X gets delayed by 2.5 seconds.

I've done this complete setup a few times and the defaults have always been good.  Maybe I need to examine this closer.  I don't think a time server is the problem.

However, I will change the server pool settings and see what happens.

Thanks for the input.
Mark
KD0QYN

    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:59:13 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote: 

I've been doing this for decades, and am using Stratum-1 servers, which
I am not sure are accessible in general (it's been so long, I don't
recall if I applied for something or not . . . ). You can try the ones I
have in my config (seen in my ntpq output below) and see if they will
respond to you, since those are known good.

My suggestion would be to resolve each of the x.us.pool.ntp.org targets,
and ping test some of the candidates, and find an entry from each with
stable connectivity, and a reasonable (and steady) ping time, and code
those IP addresses instead of the FQDN entries in your config. Make sure
that you have a minimum of three, so that if one is lost, you can sync
to something.  If one appears way off from the others, dump it and find
another.

This way, upstream DNS failures will not impact your time sync, and you
will know that ntp will not change to a server that might be dead . . .

NTP is far too mature and stable (decades) for this to be an inherent
problem with it, and Meinberg is nothing more than a convenient Windows
compile of what is regarded as the reference NTP code base, used on just
about any platform out there.

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 04:17 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
  Tim,
Interesting.  I just took the defaults when Meinberg was installed.  Here is the pool list:
   server 0.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
   server 1.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7
   server 2.us.pool.ntp.org iburst minpoll 6 maxpoll 7

Do you have any time servers to recommend?
I did notice that the time seemed correct when it was sync'd to 104.194.8.227
When the time relative to WSJT-X went off, it had switched to 23.157.160.168
I guess that *might* be a clue?

MarkKD0QYN

      On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 04:10:46 PM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
 
  You might want to try hard coding some NTP server IP's that you know
work in the config file rather than the "pool" NTP entries. I have
noticed at times that some of the pool entries can go unresponsive, and
lead to a situation similar to what you are seeing.  I hard code mine to
entries that are known to be reliable, and generally stay within
milliseconds.

And yes, your ntpq output looks good.  Jitter is a lot higher than what
I typically see, but I don't see any way that can get to 2.5 seconds.

As others have noticed, it almost looks like something is stepping your
clock outside of ntpd . . . Have you considered logging the ntpq output
and seeing if there is anything to see when time sync gets lost?

Not sure what else to say . . . ntp looks like it is working fine . . .

Oh, and your poll interval seems rather short, as does reach, which does
tend to indicate a possible loss of connectivity (but then again, the
config can have some effect on that).  If you can post your config file,
that would be good.

This is what I see on my system:

   ntpq -pn

       remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay offset
jitter
==============================================================================
   127.127.1.0        .LOCL.          10 l  60d   64    0    0.000
+0.000   0.000
+204.34.198.40   .IRIG.           1 u  557 1024  335   93.940 -3.587   0.567
*204.34.198.41   .IRIG.           1 u 1054 1024  377   93.596 -2.930   0.510
+132.163.97.6    .NIST.           1 u 120m 1024  300   27.330 +10.576
2.139

(This box serves to other systems on my network, hence the "LOCL" entry
to keep it running for internal sync if I lose external . . . Not
relevant in your case . . .)

- Tim


On 08/11/2022 03:37 PM, Mark Griffith via groups.io wrote:
    Dan,
Yeah, DNS is working.  Here is the output of ntpq:

C:\Users\KD0QYN>ntpq -pn
         remote           refid      st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
==============================================================================
+129.250.35.251  129.250.35.222   2 u   78  128  177   32.981   -1.639   7.341
+104.194.8.227   164.67.62.199    2 u  105  128  177   61.982  +15.069  11.550
*23.157.160.168  129.6.15.28      2 u   75  128  177   34.962   +9.784  22.311

Today, it was working again for some time and now is off time again by the same amount.  The offset amount above looks large, but is in milliseconds so this is not a factor.

Thanks for the help.

MarkKD0QYN

        On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 09:23:56 AM CDT, Tim Dawson <tadawson@...> wrote:
   
    Also make sure that DNS is working correctly, and that you have correctly selected either your area, or set specific NTP servers to use. Meinberg's server list(s) are names, not IP addresses, and thus depend on DNS. Also, if you run the item in Meinberg (I forget the specifix, but name - it's in the start menus) to get status, what do you get?

On August 11, 2022 8:19:55 AM CDT, Dan Malcolm <K4SHQ@...> wrote:
I know you did what Paul recommended.  Add one additional step. Open Computer Management (right click on start icon will open the menu).  Left click "Services and Applications" then select Services.  Look for "Windows Time" and make sure that service is disabled.
You very well may have already done this, but it's worth checking anyway.

__________
Dan – K4SHQ
CFI/II

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Griffith via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:16 PM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] #FT8 #FLEXRADIO #TIMESYNC New WSJT-X Install Not Syncing

Hi all,
Just became a member of this group.  I apologize if I am bringing up a subject that has been worked over many times.  I have searched the archives, but I can't find anything similar, but then I didn't look at every message.

Also please forgive if I am using the hashtags incorrectly.  Never did this before.
Some quick background....computer user since the 1970's....over 30 years as an IT pro....lots and lots of experience setting up multi-million dollar server farms...many years of development work..
I have used WSJT-X since it was first released and have hundreds of QSOs in my log using FT9 and JT65.  WAS with JT65, WAC with JT65, so I am pretty familiar with the software.
I have used Windows 7 for a couple decades, or at least since it was first released.  I did have Windows 10 on my QTH laptop, but it was a pig, too slow to use, and I was not able to upgrade to Win11.  So I put a stable version of Windows 7 Professional on my QTH laptop and re-installed everything.  This will work fine for the remaining 15 years or so of my life.  (Yes, an old man)

Also using PowerSDR with a Flex-1500 radio.  Being working great for 10 years.
So here is the problem....I can't get the time on this laptop to sync correctly so FT8 decodes correctly.  Here is a screen shot:
   
All the decodes are about 2.5 seconds off.  If I slow my computer clock by 2 seconds, everything starts to decode correctly.
So, I know what you are thinking.  I have Meinberg NTP installed, and it is working correctly.
If I go to time.is, it says my computer clock is correct, maybe .03 seconds off.
Today, I started up everything and SURPRISE!  It was working correctly and everything decoded.  After about 10 minutes, something shifted and it is now off time again.
I have searched around to see if there is a config setting for Meinberg that will slew the time by 2.5 seconds, but I can't find anything on that.  In all my years of setting up NTP on servers, I've never had a reason to do something like that.
So the computer clock is correct, everything works correctly, but there is a 2.5 seconds variance on the WSJT-X decode.  Oh, this is WSJT-X version 2.5.4.

Please, any questions or comments are welcomed.
MarkKD0QYN









--
Tim Dawson

972-567-9360






 




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