locked Can't update Tx2 signal report #QSO_practices


bob norin
 

I recently upgraded WSJT-X from 2.1.2 to 2.5.4. I'm impressed with the faster FT8 decode. But I've noticed a difference in behavior when I call stations with Tx2 rather than Tx1. When calling a station, I like to send the most recent signal report. When starting with Tx2, the signal report I give with 2.5.4 seems to be locked by my first call. If I have to call more than once, in 2.1.2 I could double click on the most recent decode and my Tx2 report would be updated. However, with 2.5.4 double-clicking doesn't update the report I send. I have to artificially double-click on a different station, and then double-click on the original station to refresh my Tx2 report. Maybe there is a setting that I'm overlooking, but otherwise it seems like a bug or disabled feature.

I'm not a daily follower of this forum, so apologies if this issue has already been discussed.

Thanks for the help.
73,
Bob W7YAQ


Bill, WB6JJJ
 

I believe it was changed to the current configuration because if the receiving station decoded your first call he would be confused as to the correct signal report if you changed it mid QSO. Anyway, your number is YOUR signal to noise reading of his signal, not a signal strength reading of the other station.

Bill
WB6JJJ

On Jan 15, 2022, at 10:23 AM, bob norin via groups.io <bobnorin=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I recently upgraded WSJT-X from 2.1.2 to 2.5.4. I'm impressed with the faster FT8 decode. But I've noticed a difference in behavior when I call stations with Tx2 rather than Tx1. When calling a station, I like to send the most recent signal report. When starting with Tx2, the signal report I give with 2.5.4 seems to be locked by my first call. If I have to call more than once, in 2.1.2 I could double click on the most recent decode and my Tx2 report would be updated. However, with 2.5.4 double-clicking doesn't update the report I send. I have to artificially double-click on a different station, and then double-click on the original station to refresh my Tx2 report. Maybe there is a setting that I'm overlooking, but otherwise it seems like a bug or disabled feature.

I'm not a daily follower of this forum, so apologies if this issue has already been discussed.

Thanks for the help.
73,
Bob W7YAQ





Reino Talarmo
 

Hi Bob,
That feature is designed on purpose. The most important issue is that some protocols use message stacking i.e. use multiple message for final decoding. That improves sensitivity quite a lot. Another use is especially in contests, when you need to repeat the report message. If you change the report value, then you cannot know which one the other operator actually got and logged.
If you want to send a "final" report, you could sent it as a free text message, say RPT -13 DB 73. Well, you cannot include a call sign into that message.
73, Reino OH3mA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of bob norin via groups.io
Sent: 15. tammikuutata 2022 20:01
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Can't update Tx2 signal report #QSO_practices

I recently upgraded WSJT-X from 2.1.2 to 2.5.4. I'm impressed with the faster FT8 decode. But I've noticed a difference in behavior when I call stations with Tx2 rather than Tx1. When calling a station, I like to send the most recent signal report. When starting with Tx2, the signal report I give with 2.5.4 seems to be locked by my first call. If I have to call more than once, in 2.1.2 I could double click on the most recent decode and my Tx2 report would be updated. However, with 2.5.4 double-clicking doesn't update the report I send. I have to artificially double-click on a different station, and then double-click on the original station to refresh my Tx2 report. Maybe there is a setting that I'm overlooking, but otherwise it seems like a bug or disabled feature.

I'm not a daily follower of this forum, so apologies if this issue has already been discussed.

Thanks for the help.
73,
Bob W7YAQ


Jim Shorney
 

Of course the Report box has a spinner so you can manually change it quickly.

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:51:37 +0200
"Reino Talarmo" <reino.talarmo@kolumbus.fi> wrote:

Hi Bob,
That feature is designed on purpose. The most important issue is that some protocols use message stacking i.e. use multiple message for final decoding. That improves sensitivity quite a lot. Another use is especially in contests, when you need to repeat the report message. If you change the report value, then you cannot know which one the other operator actually got and logged.
If you want to send a "final" report, you could sent it as a free text message, say RPT -13 DB 73. Well, you cannot include a call sign into that message.
73, Reino OH3mA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of bob norin via groups.io
Sent: 15. tammikuutata 2022 20:01
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Can't update Tx2 signal report #QSO_practices

I recently upgraded WSJT-X from 2.1.2 to 2.5.4. I'm impressed with the faster FT8 decode. But I've noticed a difference in behavior when I call stations with Tx2 rather than Tx1. When calling a station, I like to send the most recent signal report. When starting with Tx2, the signal report I give with 2.5.4 seems to be locked by my first call. If I have to call more than once, in 2.1.2 I could double click on the most recent decode and my Tx2 report would be updated. However, with 2.5.4 double-clicking doesn't update the report I send. I have to artificially double-click on a different station, and then double-click on the original station to refresh my Tx2 report. Maybe there is a setting that I'm overlooking, but otherwise it seems like a bug or disabled feature.

I'm not a daily follower of this forum, so apologies if this issue has already been discussed.

Thanks for the help.
73,
Bob W7YAQ











James Buie
 

One quick thing I noticed, if calling a station and it is multiple times before a reply, you can quickly erase the name of the station on the left side of the program where it says DX Call. Then double click the station again and it changes to the updated signal to noise ratio. I found that trick as well just the other night fooling around. So let's say you call KN4FLO, that is me, but I am replying to someone else. If you see my signal getting stronger or weaker and you know I have at least one more exchange to go, then you can quickly erase my callsign on the left side where it says DX Call. Double click on me again in the listing and it will send the updated signal. But like others have said, there is no telling what signal to noise ratio I will use no matter how you update it. I know in another program I use sometimes, I can double click on the station each time leading up to the exchange and it will show the updated report. Really, it is just about the exchange to me. People can tell me I am in the negative all the time and they are positive it means nothing. As long as the exchange happens, that is all that matters to me. Thanks, KN4FLO, James.


bob norin
 

I still fail to see a good reason for the locked Tx2 report. If you are concerned (for message stacking or consistent contest reports) then do nothing and your Tx2 report stays the same.

The other issue is that if I start the sequence with Tx1, get my report, then give mine with Tx3, and the other station doesn't copy and sends his Tx2 again, his Tx2 report to me will have his current (and likely different) value, and my Tx3 will have my current (and likely different) s/n value.

Thus the original 2.1.2 behavior, giving the user a simple option of updating the Tx2 report, if desired, gives a more consistent look-and-feel to the Tx1 vs Tx2 choice.

73,
Bob W7YAQ


Gary - AG0N
 

On Jan 16, 2022, at 11:00, bob norin via groups.io <bobnorin=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thus the original 2.1.2 behavior, giving the user a simple option of updating the Tx2 report, if desired, gives a more consistent look-and-feel to the Tx1 vs Tx2 choice.
I’m probably in the minority on this but why does anyone care what the report is? The actual report means has little to do with how your station is doing, as it is determined by the SNR AT THE RECEIVING STATION’s RECEIVER. Personally, I never pay attention to the incoming OR outgoing report. It just doesn’t matter! Some time back, I thought maybe it should be the highest or maximum SNR of the whole QSO. But again, so what? Why do you care? Be practical.

Okay, I’ll crawl back in my hole. I have no doubt this won’t be a popular opinion. Nothing new! :-)

Gary - AG0N


Darl DEEDS
 

I couldn’t care less what my report is as long as I make the contact. Although it is interesting to look at sometimes.

Darl NA8W

From: Gary - AG0N<mailto:wb0kkm@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 19:41
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io<mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Can't update Tx2 signal report #QSO_practices



On Jan 16, 2022, at 11:00, bob norin via groups.io <bobnorin=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thus the original 2.1.2 behavior, giving the user a simple option of updating the Tx2 report, if desired, gives a more consistent look-and-feel to the Tx1 vs Tx2 choice.
I’m probably in the minority on this but why does anyone care what the report is? The actual report means has little to do with how your station is doing, as it is determined by the SNR AT THE RECEIVING STATION’s RECEIVER. Personally, I never pay attention to the incoming OR outgoing report. It just doesn’t matter! Some time back, I thought maybe it should be the highest or maximum SNR of the whole QSO. But again, so what? Why do you care? Be practical.

Okay, I’ll crawl back in my hole. I have no doubt this won’t be a popular opinion. Nothing new! :-)

Gary - AG0N


Russ Ravella
 

It’s a hobby. We’re supposed to be having fun. You can have absolutely any opinion you want Gary ! Full stop.

On Jan 16, 2022, at 2:41 PM, Gary - AG0N <wb0kkm@gmail.com> wrote:



On Jan 16, 2022, at 11:00, bob norin via groups.io <bobnorin=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thus the original 2.1.2 behavior, giving the user a simple option of updating the Tx2 report, if desired, gives a more consistent look-and-feel to the Tx1 vs Tx2 choice.
I’m probably in the minority on this but why does anyone care what the report is? The actual report means has little to do with how your station is doing, as it is determined by the SNR AT THE RECEIVING STATION’s RECEIVER. Personally, I never pay attention to the incoming OR outgoing report. It just doesn’t matter! Some time back, I thought maybe it should be the highest or maximum SNR of the whole QSO. But again, so what? Why do you care? Be practical.

Okay, I’ll crawl back in my hole. I have no doubt this won’t be a popular opinion. Nothing new! :-)

Gary - AG0N





Jim Shorney
 

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 16:43:15 -0700
"Gary - AG0N" <wb0kkm@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m probably in the minority on this but why does anyone care what the report is?

You're not alone Gary. I don't get it either.

73

-JIm
NU0C


Jim Brown
 

On 1/16/2022 3:43 PM, Gary - AG0N wrote:
I’m probably in the minority on this but why does anyone care what the report is? The actual report means has little to do with how your station is doing, as it is determined by the SNR AT THE RECEIVING STATION’s RECEIVER.
Strongly agree, Gary.

Personally, I never pay attention to the incoming OR outgoing report.
I do, but only to gauge whether the other station can hear.

73, Jim K9YC


Tom Melvin
 

One reason was VHF contests - where the report is used as part of the QSO - if the report changes every over then impossible for call + report + loc to match up - make it difficult.

Please note I did say VHF contests - I know HF people don’t give a iota and it aways 599 so reports are never checked so the digital report is not checked.

I think there were a couple of other reasons in addition but forgotten what they were.

Regards

Tom
GM8MJV

On 17 Jan 2022, at 03:55, Jim Brown <k9yc@audiosystemsgroup.com> wrote:

On 1/16/2022 3:43 PM, Gary - AG0N wrote:
I’m probably in the minority on this but why does anyone care what the report is? The actual report means has little to do with how your station is doing, as it is determined by the SNR AT THE RECEIVING STATION’s RECEIVER.
Strongly agree, Gary.

Personally, I never pay attention to the incoming OR outgoing report.
I do, but only to gauge whether the other station can hear.

73, Jim K9YC







James Buie
 

Even though I never pay much attention to the SNR, I enjoy seeing it and it helps me to see what is going on with other stations and my station as well. It is just a nice feature to have. Thanks. KN4FLO, James. 73


Mike Koralewski K8VA
 

Gary,
I agree...it just doesn't make any sense to fret over SNR numbers. SURE they would be better IF the transmitting station was stronger into the receiving stations inherent noise level, or the noise level on each other's receiving end was lower.
But that's the challenge of ham radio. A completed contact is a completed contact.
73 Mike K8VA