locked Calling the DX on his transmit frequency #QSO_practices


Tim Brannon, WA5MD
 

I've been chasing some DX today and I've noticed several stations calling the DX station on his own transmit frequency.
Right now, I am watching D2UY Angola: he is consistently transmitting on the 15/45 slots. But there are callers on his waterfall frequency of 203 Hz on the 00/30 slots.

I understand that the callers should not interfere on the opposite slot, but for FT8/FT4 isn't it still considered best practice to work split-frequency? Or, am I just old-fashioned and stuck in CW mode?

Out of habit I always work split, even for domestic contacts. However, I can understand the argument that FT8/FT4 is different due to the strict timing, and so working a QSO on the same frequency in opposite slots conserves spectrum.

What is considered best practice today?

73 de Tim, WA5MD in Dallas


Darl DEEDS
 

It’s best practice to transmit on a clear frequency other then his. BUT a caveat, if he insists on doing it all on his frequency then go with the flow as they say. To many people are getting uptight on this “have to transmit separately” do it on a separate frequency if you can but he is the DX so go where he wants or is.

73
NA8W

From: Timothy Brannon<mailto:timbmd@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 19:49
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io<mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Subject: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency #QSO_practices

I've been chasing some DX today and I've noticed several stations calling the DX station on his own transmit frequency.
Right now, I am watching D2UY Angola: he is consistently transmitting on the 15/45 slots. But there are callers on his waterfall frequency of 203 Hz on the 00/30 slots.

I understand that the callers should not interfere on the opposite slot, but for FT8/FT4 isn't it still considered best practice to work split-frequency? Or, am I just old-fashioned and stuck in CW mode?

Out of habit I always work split, even for domestic contacts. However, I can understand the argument that FT8/FT4 is different due to the strict timing, and so working a QSO on the same frequency in opposite slots conserves spectrum.

What is considered best practice today?

73 de Tim, WA5MD in Dallas


careyfisher@...
 

"working a QSO on the same frequency in opposite slots conserves spectrum."

Nope - opposite timing. It doesn't matter.
73, Carey, WB4HXE

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 7:49 PM Timothy Brannon <timbmd@...> wrote:

I've been chasing some DX today and I've noticed several stations calling
the DX station on his own transmit frequency.
Right now, I am watching D2UY Angola: he is consistently transmitting on
the 15/45 slots. But there are callers on his waterfall frequency of 203 Hz
on the 00/30 slots.

I understand that the callers should not interfere on the opposite slot,
but for FT8/FT4 isn't it still considered best practice to work
split-frequency? Or, am I just old-fashioned and stuck in CW mode?

Out of habit I always work split, even for domestic contacts. However, I
can understand the argument that FT8/FT4 is different due to the strict
timing, and so working a QSO on the same frequency in opposite slots
conserves spectrum.

What is considered best practice today?

73 de Tim, WA5MD in Dallas





--
Carey Fisher
careyfisher@...
--
73, Carey, WB4HXE


Randy, WS4C
 

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 08:48 PM, <careyfisher@...> wrote:


Nope - opposite timing. It doesn't matter.
I'm not sure you got his point. If NOBODY transmits on the DX's calling frequency during his listening period, then there's a little chunk of spectrum/time going unused. The people who don't call there call somewhere else, using a chunk of spectrum that wouldn't be used if they called on the DX's frequency.

The one way it would seem to me not to matter is if we assume that some other station would be transmitting on the DX's offset on his opposite cycles rather than using another piece of spectrum elsewhere. In that case, it seems like you'd be right: neither approach would conserve more spectrum, unless maybe you factor in that several stations calling the DX that would be use a chunk each if they all called split would combine in one chunk if they call on the DX's offset. That might conserve some spectrum, but it might also make for more failed decodes that might offset the more efficient use of spectrum.

At least this is how it seems to me.

Randy, WS4C


Jim Shorney
 

Of course with the FT bands as busy as they are these days it is likely that there are other ops that you can't hear operating on the DX's non-TX slot.

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Fri, 02 Sep 2022 21:43:35 -0700
"Randy, WS4C" <Randy@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 08:48 PM, <careyfisher@...> wrote:


Nope - opposite timing. It doesn't matter.
I'm not sure you got his point. If NOBODY transmits on the DX's calling frequency during his listening period, then there's a little chunk of spectrum/time going unused. The people who don't call there call somewhere else, using a chunk of spectrum that wouldn't be used if they called on the DX's frequency.

The one way it would seem to me not to matter is if we assume that some other station would be transmitting on the DX's offset on his opposite cycles rather than using another piece of spectrum elsewhere. In that case, it seems like you'd be right: neither approach would conserve more spectrum, unless maybe you factor in that several stations calling the DX that would be use a chunk each if they all called split would combine in one chunk if they call on the DX's offset. That might conserve some spectrum, but it might also make for more failed decodes that might offset the more efficient use of spectrum.

At least this is how it seems to me.

Randy, WS4C





Todd Little
 

Why does it matter what offset anyone uses? As well the DX might not even be listening on the offset their calling on. Unless the band is extremely crowded, spreading out the callers seems to make more sense, i.e., calling offset their transmit frequency. What good does piling a bunch of callers on a single offset?

73,
Todd, N9MWB

PS Is WSJT-X when I try to call on the remote stations transmit offset, unless the remote station answers my call, the Enable TX goes off. Maybe it's just a setting. Still learning.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Randy, WS4C
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2022 11:44 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 08:48 PM, <careyfisher@...> wrote:


Nope - opposite timing. It doesn't matter.
I'm not sure you got his point. If NOBODY transmits on the DX's calling
frequency during his listening period, then there's a little chunk of
spectrum/time going unused. The people who don't call there call
somewhere else, using a chunk of spectrum that wouldn't be used if they
called on the DX's frequency.

The one way it would seem to me not to matter is if we assume that some
other station would be transmitting on the DX's offset on his opposite cycles
rather than using another piece of spectrum elsewhere. In that case, it
seems like you'd be right: neither approach would conserve more spectrum,
unless maybe you factor in that several stations calling the DX that would be
use a chunk each if they all called split would combine in one chunk if they call
on the DX's offset. That might conserve some spectrum, but it might also
make for more failed decodes that might offset the more efficient use of
spectrum.

At least this is how it seems to me.

Randy, WS4C




Sam Birnbaum
 

Hi Todd,
As well the DX might not even be listening on the offset their calling on.
Unless the CQers have a Notch on their tx offset, they are listening on the entire bandpass. they may choose to ignore, but they are still listening  

73,

Sam W2JDB


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Little <toddjlittle@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2022 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency #QSO_practices

Why does it matter what offset anyone uses?  As well the DX might not even be listening on the offset their calling on.  Unless the band is extremely crowded, spreading out the callers seems to make more sense, i.e., calling offset their transmit frequency.  What good does piling a bunch of callers on a single offset?

73,
Todd, N9MWB

PS  Is WSJT-X when I try to call on the remote stations transmit offset, unless the remote station answers my call, the Enable TX goes off.  Maybe it's just a setting.  Still learning.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Randy, WS4C
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2022 11:44 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 08:48 PM, <careyfisher@...> wrote:


Nope - opposite timing. It doesn't matter.
I'm not sure you got his point. If NOBODY transmits on the DX's calling
frequency during his listening period, then there's a little chunk of
spectrum/time going unused. The people who don't call there call
somewhere else, using a chunk of spectrum that wouldn't be used if they
called on the DX's frequency.

The one way it would seem to me not to matter is if we assume that some
other station would be transmitting on the DX's offset on his opposite cycles
rather than using another piece of spectrum elsewhere. In that case, it
seems like you'd be right: neither approach would conserve more spectrum,
unless maybe you factor in that several stations calling the DX that would be
use a chunk each if they all called split would combine in one chunk if they call
on the DX's offset. That might conserve some spectrum, but it might also
make for more failed decodes that might offset the more efficient use of
spectrum.

At least this is how it seems to me.

Randy, WS4C




Reino Talarmo
 

PS Is WSJT-X when I try to call on the remote stations transmit offset, unless the remote station answers my call, the Enable TX goes off. Maybe it's just a setting. Still learning.
Hi Todd,
That feature is by design. It is minimizing QRM on DX station frequency. It is assumed that the station to whom DX answered on the DX station frequency, it may be a wrong assumption, but still the best one.
73, Reino OH3mA


Todd Little
 

Hi Sam,

Do people use a notch filter with FT8? And if so, how does it help?

73,
Todd, N9MWB

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sam
Birnbaum via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2022 1:37 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

Hi Todd,
As well the DX might not even be listening on the offset their calling on.
Unless the CQers have a Notch on their tx offset, they are listening on the
entire bandpass. they may choose to ignore, but they are still listening

73,

Sam W2JDB


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Little <toddjlittle@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2022 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

Why does it matter what offset anyone uses? As well the DX might not even
be listening on the offset their calling on. Unless the band is extremely
crowded, spreading out the callers seems to make more sense, i.e., calling
offset their transmit frequency. What good does piling a bunch of callers on
a single offset?

73,
Todd, N9MWB

PS Is WSJT-X when I try to call on the remote stations transmit offset, unless
the remote station answers my call, the Enable TX goes off. Maybe it's just a
setting. Still learning.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Randy,
WS4C
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2022 11:44 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 08:48 PM, <careyfisher@...> wrote:


Nope - opposite timing. It doesn't matter.
I'm not sure you got his point. If NOBODY transmits on the DX's
calling frequency during his listening period, then there's a little
chunk of spectrum/time going unused. The people who don't call there
call somewhere else, using a chunk of spectrum that wouldn't be used
if they called on the DX's frequency.

The one way it would seem to me not to matter is if we assume that
some other station would be transmitting on the DX's offset on his
opposite cycles rather than using another piece of spectrum elsewhere.
In that case, it seems like you'd be right: neither approach would
conserve more spectrum, unless maybe you factor in that several
stations calling the DX that would be use a chunk each if they all
called split would combine in one chunk if they call on the DX's
offset. That might conserve some spectrum, but it might also make for
more failed decodes that might offset the more efficient use of spectrum.

At least this is how it seems to me.

Randy, WS4C













neil_zampella <neilz@...>
 

Yes some people do, and no it doesn't unless they're trying to eliminate
a very 'loud' or 'powerful' signal nearby causing issues.   The program
is designed to receive the entire bandwidth, notching out sections
messes up the SNR calculations, and can miss people replying to CQs on
other areas of that bandwidth.


Neil, KN3ILZ

On 9/4/2022 11:04 AM, Todd Little wrote:
Hi Sam,

Do people use a notch filter with FT8? And if so, how does it help?

73,
Todd, N9MWB

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sam
Birnbaum via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2022 1:37 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

Hi Todd,
As well the DX might not even be listening on the offset their calling on.
Unless the CQers have a Notch on their tx offset, they are listening on the
entire bandpass. they may choose to ignore, but they are still listening

73,

Sam W2JDB


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Little <toddjlittle@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2022 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

Why does it matter what offset anyone uses? As well the DX might not even
be listening on the offset their calling on. Unless the band is extremely
crowded, spreading out the callers seems to make more sense, i.e., calling
offset their transmit frequency. What good does piling a bunch of callers on
a single offset?

73,
Todd, N9MWB

PS Is WSJT-X when I try to call on the remote stations transmit offset, unless
the remote station answers my call, the Enable TX goes off. Maybe it's just a
setting. Still learning.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Randy,
WS4C
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2022 11:44 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 08:48 PM, <careyfisher@...> wrote:

Nope - opposite timing. It doesn't matter.
I'm not sure you got his point. If NOBODY transmits on the DX's
calling frequency during his listening period, then there's a little
chunk of spectrum/time going unused. The people who don't call there
call somewhere else, using a chunk of spectrum that wouldn't be used
if they called on the DX's frequency.

The one way it would seem to me not to matter is if we assume that
some other station would be transmitting on the DX's offset on his
opposite cycles rather than using another piece of spectrum elsewhere.
In that case, it seems like you'd be right: neither approach would
conserve more spectrum, unless maybe you factor in that several
stations calling the DX that would be use a chunk each if they all
called split would combine in one chunk if they call on the DX's
offset. That might conserve some spectrum, but it might also make for
more failed decodes that might offset the more efficient use of spectrum.

At least this is how it seems to me.

Randy, WS4C















Chuck Gelm
 

On 9/4/22 12:04, Todd Little wrote:
Hi Sam,

Do people use a notch filter with FT8? And if so, how does it help?

73,
Todd, N9MWB
I never have and do not know how it would help.
? Faster decodes because it omits a frequency range?


Reino Talarmo
 

A notch helps, if the local interfering signal is really strong. It may help to decode a weak signal, if you need to turn RF gain too much down before signal no more overloads A/D-conversion. On the other hand RF gain that keeps thermometer at 80 dB may be enough.

73, Reino

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Gelm
Sent: 4. syyskuutata 2022 21:16
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency #QSO_practices

On 9/4/22 12:04, Todd Little wrote:
Hi Sam,

Do people use a notch filter with FT8? And if so, how does it help?

73,
Todd, N9MWB
I never have and do not know how it would help.
? Faster decodes because it omits a frequency range?


 

I used to have a notch filter to mask out the harmonics from my solar panel inverter. It didn’t seem worth the effort in the end. This was with a Flex-1500. I’ve not even tried to use it with the IC-7300.

73 Phil GM3ZZA

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: neil_zampella
Sent: 04 September 2022 18:50
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency #QSO_practices

Yes some people do, and no it doesn't unless they're trying to eliminate
a very 'loud' or 'powerful' signal nearby causing issues.   The program
is designed to receive the entire bandwidth, notching out sections
messes up the SNR calculations, and can miss people replying to CQs on
other areas of that bandwidth.


Neil, KN3ILZ

On 9/4/2022 11:04 AM, Todd Little wrote:
Hi Sam,

Do people use a notch filter with FT8? And if so, how does it help?

73,
Todd, N9MWB

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sam
Birnbaum via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2022 1:37 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

Hi Todd,
As well the DX might not even be listening on the offset their calling on.
Unless the CQers have a Notch on their tx offset, they are listening on the
entire bandpass. they may choose to ignore, but they are still listening

73,

Sam W2JDB


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Little <toddjlittle@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2022 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

Why does it matter what offset anyone uses? As well the DX might not even
be listening on the offset their calling on. Unless the band is extremely
crowded, spreading out the callers seems to make more sense, i.e., calling
offset their transmit frequency. What good does piling a bunch of callers on
a single offset?

73,
Todd, N9MWB

PS Is WSJT-X when I try to call on the remote stations transmit offset, unless
the remote station answers my call, the Enable TX goes off. Maybe it's just a
setting. Still learning.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Randy,
WS4C
Sent: Friday, September 2, 2022 11:44 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Calling the DX on his transmit frequency
#QSO_practices

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 08:48 PM, <careyfisher@...> wrote:

Nope - opposite timing. It doesn't matter.
I'm not sure you got his point. If NOBODY transmits on the DX's
calling frequency during his listening period, then there's a little
chunk of spectrum/time going unused. The people who don't call there
call somewhere else, using a chunk of spectrum that wouldn't be used
if they called on the DX's frequency.

The one way it would seem to me not to matter is if we assume that
some other station would be transmitting on the DX's offset on his
opposite cycles rather than using another piece of spectrum elsewhere.
In that case, it seems like you'd be right: neither approach would
conserve more spectrum, unless maybe you factor in that several
stations calling the DX that would be use a chunk each if they all
called split would combine in one chunk if they call on the DX's
offset. That might conserve some spectrum, but it might also make for
more failed decodes that might offset the more efficient use of spectrum.

At least this is how it seems to me.

Randy, WS4C






















--
73 Phil GM3ZZA