locked F/H #FoxAndHound


Ed Stratton
 

How do you know a station is in F/H mode?
Does the FOX call CQ?
--
W1ZZ


Michael Black
 

Usually the DXPedition will say so.
The only way to tell by watching is looking at the decodes from themIf they do 2 or more slots you will see this where an RR73 and a TX 3 are combined.
K1ABC RR73; W9XYZ -17

Or you will see two decodes with the TX 3 message to different callsK1ABC KH7Z -13
K2XYZ KH7Z -15

Mike W9MDB

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 12:27:49 PM CDT, Ed Stratton <w1zzham@...> wrote:

How do you know a station is in F/H mode?
Does the FOX call CQ?
--
W1ZZ


Robie - AJ4F
 

1. Fox calls CQ -Even/1st
2. Fox will NOT be on standard frequencies i.e. 14074, etc.
3. Fox will be below 1000 Hz, usually 200-400 Hz

I'm sure others will provide additional info.

Robie - AJ4F

On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 12:27 PM Ed Stratton <w1zzham@...> wrote:

How do you know a station is in F/H mode?
Does the FOX call CQ?
--
W1ZZ






Karza
 

On 18.6.2022 20.33, Robie - AJ4F wrote:
2. Fox will NOT be on standard frequencies i.e. 14074, etc.
Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc


The Greene Family
 

Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc

Yeah... This has become somewhat common of late, hasn't it? I guess some DXpeditions are finding that if they use the frequencies often used for Fox/Hound operation, not as many Hounds find them and call. So, that ruins the rate. I'm not sure what can be done about this.

When a Fox is on 18.101212, where is a Hound supposed to call? Above 18.102000?

It would be great if there was a bit that could be set in the payload for a Fox indicating "I am a Fox". That way, the Hounds would know. The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz. But, I understand that the development team is already strapped for bits in the Fox payload, so something like this is unlikely.

It would also be great if the default TX Freq for Foxes was 700 Hz. Although this shouldn't be true, a number of radios don't have good frequency response below about 400 Hz. Hounds get lost down there when called and are giving their reports. It's obviously possible for Foxes to set their TX Freq manually to account for this, but, they don't and just rely on the defaults. The problem isn't widely appreciated and just who reads the manual anyway?

I have other minor complaints based on observation over the past few years. Generally, it has nothing to do with the WSJT-X software and everything to do with people's operating habits. I supposed the WSJT-X development team could make changes to motivate better behavior, but would that really help? I don't know.

Clarke K1JX


neil_zampella <neilz@...>
 

Probably MSHV ... not WSJT-X.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 6/18/2022 1:01 PM, Karza wrote:
On 18.6.2022 20.33, Robie - AJ4F wrote:
2. Fox will NOT be on standard frequencies i.e. 14074, etc.
Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc





Michael Black
 

I think if you're in Hound mode that WSJTX should disallow transmitting until the dxpedition is detected.
A little cache of decoded callsigns < 500Hz (like the last 20 or so) would detect the Fox and if you want to transmit to the callsign it has to be in that cache.Fox could be specifically detected by the TX message sent.10 calls would be at worst 4 Fox cycles and if you haven't decoded them in the last 4 cycles you should not be calling them.
Mike W9MDB

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 02:56:32 PM CDT, The Greene Family <cvgreene@...> wrote:

Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc

Yeah...  This has become somewhat common of late, hasn't it?  I guess some DXpeditions are finding that if they use the frequencies often used for Fox/Hound operation, not as many Hounds find them and call.  So, that ruins the rate.  I'm not sure what can be done about this.

When a Fox is on 18.101212, where is a Hound supposed to call?  Above 18.102000?

It would be great if there was a bit that could be set in the payload for a Fox indicating "I am a Fox".  That way, the Hounds would know.  The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz.  But, I understand that the development team is already strapped for bits in the Fox payload, so something like this is unlikely. 

It would also be great if the default TX Freq for Foxes was 700 Hz.  Although this shouldn't be true, a number of radios don't have good frequency response below about 400 Hz.  Hounds get lost down there when called and are giving their reports.  It's obviously possible for Foxes to set their TX Freq manually to account for this, but, they don't and just rely on the defaults.  The problem isn't widely appreciated and just who reads the manual anyway?

I have other minor complaints based on observation over the past few years.  Generally, it has nothing to do with the WSJT-X software and everything to do with people's operating habits.  I supposed the WSJT-X development team could make changes to motivate better behavior, but would that really help?  I don't know.

Clarke  K1JX


Bill, WB6JJJ
 

———
The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz.
———
WSJT-X forces the hound to be on the correct time slot. I’m not sure about the WSJT knock-offs…

Bill
WB6JJJ

On Jun 18, 2022, at 1:06 PM, Michael Black via groups.io <mdblack98@...> wrote:

I think if you're in Hound mode that WSJTX should disallow transmitting until the dxpedition is detected.
A little cache of decoded callsigns < 500Hz (like the last 20 or so) would detect the Fox and if you want to transmit to the callsign it has to be in that cache.Fox could be specifically detected by the TX message sent.10 calls would be at worst 4 Fox cycles and if you haven't decoded them in the last 4 cycles you should not be calling them.
Mike W9MDB


On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 02:56:32 PM CDT, The Greene Family <cvgreene@...> wrote:

Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc

Yeah... This has become somewhat common of late, hasn't it? I guess some DXpeditions are finding that if they use the frequencies often used for Fox/Hound operation, not as many Hounds find them and call. So, that ruins the rate. I'm not sure what can be done about this.

When a Fox is on 18.101212, where is a Hound supposed to call? Above 18.102000?

It would be great if there was a bit that could be set in the payload for a Fox indicating "I am a Fox". That way, the Hounds would know. The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz. But, I understand that the development team is already strapped for bits in the Fox payload, so something like this is unlikely.

It would also be great if the default TX Freq for Foxes was 700 Hz. Although this shouldn't be true, a number of radios don't have good frequency response below about 400 Hz. Hounds get lost down there when called and are giving their reports. It's obviously possible for Foxes to set their TX Freq manually to account for this, but, they don't and just rely on the defaults. The problem isn't widely appreciated and just who reads the manual anyway?

I have other minor complaints based on observation over the past few years. Generally, it has nothing to do with the WSJT-X software and everything to do with people's operating habits. I supposed the WSJT-X development team could make changes to motivate better behavior, but would that really help? I don't know.

Clarke K1JX











The Greene Family
 

WSJT-X forces the hound to be on the correct time slot. I’m not sure about the WSJT knock-offs…

Bill
WB6JJJ


I should've been more clear. If a station is in Hound mode, it is indeed forced to transmit in the proper time slot. It's when a station isn't in Hound mode and decides to call at 849 Hz - or, worse, right on the Fox's TX Freq - that s/he can call in the same time sequence as the Fox is transmitting. Not that any of us have ever witnessed that before...

Clarke K1JX


The Greene Family
 

I think if you're in Hound mode that WSJTX should disallow transmitting until the dxpedition is detected.
A little cache of decoded callsigns < 500Hz (like the last 20 or so) would detect the Fox and if you want to transmit to the callsign it has to be in that cache.Fox could be specifically detected by the TX message sent.10 calls would be at worst 4 Fox cycles and if you haven't decoded them in the last 4 cycles you should not be calling them.
Mike W9MDB

An approach like that could work, sure.

That's not the case at present. Just to be sure, I set up at 28.085 MHz just now, and typed in "W9MDB" as the Fox's callsign while I was in Hound mode, and could call away. I'm surprised you didn't copy me.

I have no idea what the answer might be. As a group, hams tend to be non-conformist by nature. I suspect those who go to far off places on DXpeditions are even more so. So, getting them to play by some defined set of rules can be challenging. (Ask the guys who adjudicate contests about that.) Software can try to enforce some sort of direction in all this, but then somebody will work very diligently to create workarounds, even if it isn't in their own best interests.

It's often amusing to see stations call DX they clearly can't be hearing, F/H mode or not. I know they aren't hearing the DX because they are transmitting during the same period as the DX is. It's even more humorous when they give signal reports...

73,

Clarke K1JX


Robie - AJ4F
 

Kari,

Most likely the op was using MSHV. MSHV's multi stream looks like F/H but
it's not.

If you attempt to transmit as a fox on a standard frequency you will get
the following message:

[image: image.png]

Robie AJ4F

On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 1:01 PM Karza <kari.sillanmaki@...> wrote:

On 18.6.2022 20.33, Robie - AJ4F wrote:
2. Fox will NOT be on standard frequencies i.e. 14074, etc.
Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc







Gary - AG0N
 

On Jun 18, 2022, at 11:27, Ed Stratton <w1zzham@...> wrote:

How do you know a station is in F/H mode?
A F/H station should never be on the normal frequency segments. That said, it has been abused by a few. Normally, an expedition will publish special frequencies along with their operating plans.


Gary - AG0N


Reino Talarmo
 

Hi All,

Another possibility to move Hounds to a DX frequency, say 14.090 MHz, could be that the Fox sometimes sends on a standard frequency "CQ 090" (perhaps even above 100 Hz audio). See 17.1. Overview "If K1ABC transmits on a standard calling frequency such as 50.280, and sends CQ 290 K1ABC FN42, it means that s/he will listen on 50.290 and respond there to any replies."

I assume that in the F/H case at 20 m the 090 means DX frequency 14.090 MHz and Hounds would transmit above 1000 Hz audio for calling the Fox i.e. above 14.091 MHz at RF as usually.

73, Reino OH3mA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 18. kesäkuutata 2022 23:07
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

I think if you're in Hound mode that WSJTX should disallow transmitting until the dxpedition is detected.
A little cache of decoded callsigns < 500Hz (like the last 20 or so) would detect the Fox and if you want to transmit to the callsign it has to be in that cache.Fox could be specifically detected by the TX message sent.10 calls would be at worst 4 Fox cycles and if you haven't decoded them in the last 4 cycles you should not be calling them.
Mike W9MDB


On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 02:56:32 PM CDT, The Greene Family <cvgreene@...> wrote:

Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc

Yeah... This has become somewhat common of late, hasn't it? I guess some DXpeditions are finding that if they use the frequencies often used for Fox/Hound operation, not as many Hounds find them and call. So, that ruins the rate. I'm not sure what can be done about this.

When a Fox is on 18.101212, where is a Hound supposed to call? Above 18.102000?

It would be great if there was a bit that could be set in the payload for a Fox indicating "I am a Fox". That way, the Hounds would know. The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz. But, I understand that the development team is already strapped for bits in the Fox payload, so something like this is unlikely.

It would also be great if the default TX Freq for Foxes was 700 Hz. Although this shouldn't be true, a number of radios don't have good frequency response below about 400 Hz. Hounds get lost down there when called and are giving their reports. It's obviously possible for Foxes to set their TX Freq manually to account for this, but, they don't and just rely on the defaults. The problem isn't widely appreciated and just who reads the manual anyway?

I have other minor complaints based on observation over the past few years. Generally, it has nothing to do with the WSJT-X software and everything to do with people's operating habits. I supposed the WSJT-X development team could make changes to motivate better behavior, but would that really help? I don't know.

Clarke K1JX


Michael Black
 

I'm more interested in stopping the blind callers....those are the ones that decrease the efficiency of the dxpedition.
But....for the Fox there's no need for grid so could just do "CQ 14090 K1ABC" for example.Seems to work by a special hash being done
C:\WSJT\wsjtx260rc1\bin>ft8code "CQ 14090 K1ABC"    Message                               Decoded                             Err i3.n3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. CQ 14090 K1ABC                        <CQ_14090> K1ABC                      *  1.  Standard msg

C:\WSJT\wsjtx260rc1\bin>ft8code "CQ 50290 K1ABC"    Message                               Decoded                             Err i3.n3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. CQ 50290 K1ABC                        <CQ_50290> K1ABC                      *  1.  Standard msg
Mike W9MDB

On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 01:07:59 AM CDT, Reino Talarmo <reino.talarmo@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Another possibility to move Hounds to a DX frequency, say 14.090 MHz, could be that the Fox sometimes sends on a standard frequency "CQ 090" (perhaps even above 100 Hz audio). See 17.1. Overview "If K1ABC transmits on a standard calling frequency such as 50.280, and sends CQ 290 K1ABC FN42, it means that s/he will listen on 50.290 and respond there to any replies."

I assume that in the F/H case at 20 m the 090 means DX frequency 14.090 MHz and Hounds would transmit above 1000 Hz audio for calling the Fox i.e. above 14.091 MHz at RF as usually.

73, Reino OH3mA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 18. kesäkuutata 2022 23:07
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

I think if you're in Hound mode that WSJTX should disallow transmitting until the dxpedition is detected.
A little cache of decoded callsigns < 500Hz (like the last 20 or so) would detect the Fox and if you want to transmit to the callsign it has to be in that cache.Fox could be specifically detected by the TX message sent.10 calls would be at worst 4 Fox cycles and if you haven't decoded them in the last 4 cycles you should not be calling them.
Mike W9MDB


    On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 02:56:32 PM CDT, The Greene Family <cvgreene@...> wrote: 

Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc

Yeah...  This has become somewhat common of late, hasn't it?  I guess some DXpeditions are finding that if they use the frequencies often used for Fox/Hound operation, not as many Hounds find them and call.  So, that ruins the rate.  I'm not sure what can be done about this.

When a Fox is on 18.101212, where is a Hound supposed to call?  Above 18.102000?

It would be great if there was a bit that could be set in the payload for a Fox indicating "I am a Fox".  That way, the Hounds would know.  The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz.  But, I understand that the development team is already strapped for bits in the Fox payload, so something like this is unlikely. 

It would also be great if the default TX Freq for Foxes was 700 Hz.  Although this shouldn't be true, a number of radios don't have good frequency response below about 400 Hz.  Hounds get lost down there when called and are giving their reports.  It's obviously possible for Foxes to set their TX Freq manually to account for this, but, they don't and just rely on the defaults.  The problem isn't widely appreciated and just who reads the manual anyway?

I have other minor complaints based on observation over the past few years.  Generally, it has nothing to do with the WSJT-X software and everything to do with people's operating habits.  I supposed the WSJT-X development team could make changes to motivate better behavior, but would that really help?  I don't know.

Clarke  K1JX


Reino Talarmo
 

Hi Mike,

The only problem is that only the sender can decode it properly. All others will see it as they don't have information about that hash value and will receive it as < . . . > K1ABC. Correct me, if I am wrong.

By the way what's wrong with the CQ 090 K1ABC FM12 ? We are not proposing a band change, are we.

73, Reino

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19. kesäkuutata 2022 14:59
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

I'm more interested in stopping the blind callers....those are the ones that decrease the efficiency of the dxpedition.
But....for the Fox there's no need for grid so could just do "CQ 14090 K1ABC" for example.Seems to work by a special hash being done C:\WSJT\wsjtx260rc1\bin>ft8code "CQ 14090 K1ABC"

Message Decoded Err i3.n3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1.

CQ 14090 K1ABC <CQ_14090> K1ABC * 1. Standard msg

C:\WSJT\wsjtx260rc1\bin>ft8code "CQ 50290 K1ABC" Message Decoded Err i3.n3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. CQ 50290 K1ABC <CQ_50290> K1ABC * 1. Standard msg Mike W9MDB





On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 01:07:59 AM CDT, Reino Talarmo <reino.talarmo@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Another possibility to move Hounds to a DX frequency, say 14.090 MHz, could be that the Fox sometimes sends on a standard frequency "CQ 090" (perhaps even above 100 Hz audio). See 17.1. Overview "If K1ABC transmits on a standard calling frequency such as 50.280, and sends CQ 290 K1ABC FN42, it means that s/he will listen on 50.290 and respond there to any replies."

I assume that in the F/H case at 20 m the 090 means DX frequency 14.090 MHz and Hounds would transmit above 1000 Hz audio for calling the Fox i.e. above 14.091 MHz at RF as usually.

73, Reino OH3mA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 18. kesäkuutata 2022 23:07
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

I think if you're in Hound mode that WSJTX should disallow transmitting until the dxpedition is detected.
A little cache of decoded callsigns < 500Hz (like the last 20 or so) would detect the Fox and if you want to transmit to the callsign it has to be in that cache.Fox could be specifically detected by the TX message sent.10 calls would be at worst 4 Fox cycles and if you haven't decoded them in the last 4 cycles you should not be calling them.
Mike W9MDB


On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 02:56:32 PM CDT, The Greene Family <cvgreene@...> wrote:

Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc

Yeah... This has become somewhat common of late, hasn't it? I guess some DXpeditions are finding that if they use the frequencies often used for Fox/Hound operation, not as many Hounds find them and call. So, that ruins the rate. I'm not sure what can be done about this.

When a Fox is on 18.101212, where is a Hound supposed to call? Above 18.102000?

It would be great if there was a bit that could be set in the payload for a Fox indicating "I am a Fox". That way, the Hounds would know. The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz. But, I understand that the development team is already strapped for bits in the Fox payload, so something like this is unlikely.

It would also be great if the default TX Freq for Foxes was 700 Hz. Although this shouldn't be true, a number of radios don't have good frequency response below about 400 Hz. Hounds get lost down there when called and are giving their reports. It's obviously possible for Foxes to set their TX Freq manually to account for this, but, they don't and just rely on the defaults. The problem isn't widely appreciated and just who reads the manual anyway?

I have other minor complaints based on observation over the past few years. Generally, it has nothing to do with the WSJT-X software and everything to do with people's operating habits. I supposed the WSJT-X development team could make changes to motivate better behavior, but would that really help? I don't know.

Clarke K1JX


Michael Black
 

Yeah...it can't be received correctly without sending it plain text first.
I'm wondering why the logic is there.
Mike W(MDB

On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 10:03:54 AM CDT, Reino Talarmo <reino.talarmo@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

The only problem is that only the sender can decode it properly. All others will see it as they don't have information about that hash value and will receive it as < . . . > K1ABC. Correct me, if I am wrong.

By the way what's wrong with the CQ 090 K1ABC FM12 ? We are not proposing a band change, are we.

73, Reino

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19. kesäkuutata 2022 14:59
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

I'm more interested in stopping the blind callers....those are the ones that decrease the efficiency of the dxpedition.
But....for the Fox there's no need for grid so could just do "CQ 14090 K1ABC" for example.Seems to work by a special hash being done C:\WSJT\wsjtx260rc1\bin>ft8code "CQ 14090 K1ABC"   

Message                              Decoded                            Err i3.n3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1.

CQ 14090 K1ABC                        <CQ_14090> K1ABC                      *  1.  Standard msg

C:\WSJT\wsjtx260rc1\bin>ft8code "CQ 50290 K1ABC"    Message                              Decoded                            Err i3.n3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. CQ 50290 K1ABC                        <CQ_50290> K1ABC                      *  1.  Standard msg Mike W9MDB





    On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 01:07:59 AM CDT, Reino Talarmo <reino.talarmo@...> wrote: 

Hi All,

Another possibility to move Hounds to a DX frequency, say 14.090 MHz, could be that the Fox sometimes sends on a standard frequency "CQ 090" (perhaps even above 100 Hz audio). See 17.1. Overview "If K1ABC transmits on a standard calling frequency such as 50.280, and sends CQ 290 K1ABC FN42, it means that s/he will listen on 50.290 and respond there to any replies."

I assume that in the F/H case at 20 m the 090 means DX frequency 14.090 MHz and Hounds would transmit above 1000 Hz audio for calling the Fox i.e. above 14.091 MHz at RF as usually.

73, Reino OH3mA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 18. kesäkuutata 2022 23:07
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

I think if you're in Hound mode that WSJTX should disallow transmitting until the dxpedition is detected.
A little cache of decoded callsigns < 500Hz (like the last 20 or so) would detect the Fox and if you want to transmit to the callsign it has to be in that cache.Fox could be specifically detected by the TX message sent.10 calls would be at worst 4 Fox cycles and if you haven't decoded them in the last 4 cycles you should not be calling them.
Mike W9MDB


    On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 02:56:32 PM CDT, The Greene Family <cvgreene@...> wrote: 

Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc

Yeah...  This has become somewhat common of late, hasn't it?  I guess some DXpeditions are finding that if they use the frequencies often used for Fox/Hound operation, not as many Hounds find them and call.  So, that ruins the rate.  I'm not sure what can be done about this.

When a Fox is on 18.101212, where is a Hound supposed to call?  Above 18.102000?

It would be great if there was a bit that could be set in the payload for a Fox indicating "I am a Fox".  That way, the Hounds would know.  The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz.  But, I understand that the development team is already strapped for bits in the Fox payload, so something like this is unlikely. 

It would also be great if the default TX Freq for Foxes was 700 Hz.  Although this shouldn't be true, a number of radios don't have good frequency response below about 400 Hz.  Hounds get lost down there when called and are giving their reports.  It's obviously possible for Foxes to set their TX Freq manually to account for this, but, they don't and just rely on the defaults.  The problem isn't widely appreciated and just who reads the manual anyway?

I have other minor complaints based on observation over the past few years.  Generally, it has nothing to do with the WSJT-X software and everything to do with people's operating habits.  I supposed the WSJT-X development team could make changes to motivate better behavior, but would that really help?  I don't know.

Clarke  K1JX


Reino Talarmo
 

A hash is a lossy compression and there are many potential contents that result the same has value.
I am a bit surprised, if the free text puts it into the hash table. Could be so, but general intention is to hash only call signs.
Reino OH3mA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19. kesäkuutata 2022 18:08
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

Yeah...it can't be received correctly without sending it plain text first.
I'm wondering why the logic is there.
Mike W(MDB



On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 10:03:54 AM CDT, Reino Talarmo <reino.talarmo@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

The only problem is that only the sender can decode it properly. All others will see it as they don't have information about that hash value and will receive it as < . . . > K1ABC. Correct me, if I am wrong.

By the way what's wrong with the CQ 090 K1ABC FM12 ? We are not proposing a band change, are we.

73, Reino

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19. kesäkuutata 2022 14:59
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

I'm more interested in stopping the blind callers....those are the ones that decrease the efficiency of the dxpedition.
But....for the Fox there's no need for grid so could just do "CQ 14090 K1ABC" for example.Seems to work by a special hash being done C:\WSJT\wsjtx260rc1\bin>ft8code "CQ 14090 K1ABC"

Message Decoded Err i3.n3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1.

CQ 14090 K1ABC <CQ_14090> K1ABC * 1. Standard msg

C:\WSJT\wsjtx260rc1\bin>ft8code "CQ 50290 K1ABC" Message Decoded Err i3.n3---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. CQ 50290 K1ABC <CQ_50290> K1ABC * 1. Standard msg Mike W9MDB





On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 01:07:59 AM CDT, Reino Talarmo <reino.talarmo@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Another possibility to move Hounds to a DX frequency, say 14.090 MHz, could be that the Fox sometimes sends on a standard frequency "CQ 090" (perhaps even above 100 Hz audio). See 17.1. Overview "If K1ABC transmits on a standard calling frequency such as 50.280, and sends CQ 290 K1ABC FN42, it means that s/he will listen on 50.290 and respond there to any replies."

I assume that in the F/H case at 20 m the 090 means DX frequency 14.090 MHz and Hounds would transmit above 1000 Hz audio for calling the Fox i.e. above 14.091 MHz at RF as usually.

73, Reino OH3mA

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 18. kesäkuutata 2022 23:07
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] F/H #FoxAndHound

I think if you're in Hound mode that WSJTX should disallow transmitting until the dxpedition is detected.
A little cache of decoded callsigns < 500Hz (like the last 20 or so) would detect the Fox and if you want to transmit to the callsign it has to be in that cache.Fox could be specifically detected by the TX message sent.10 calls would be at worst 4 Fox cycles and if you haven't decoded them in the last 4 cycles you should not be calling them.
Mike W9MDB


On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 02:56:32 PM CDT, The Greene Family <cvgreene@...> wrote:

Well, there was one just a few minutes ago on 18.100 ...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc

Yeah... This has become somewhat common of late, hasn't it? I guess some DXpeditions are finding that if they use the frequencies often used for Fox/Hound operation, not as many Hounds find them and call. So, that ruins the rate. I'm not sure what can be done about this.

When a Fox is on 18.101212, where is a Hound supposed to call? Above 18.102000?

It would be great if there was a bit that could be set in the payload for a Fox indicating "I am a Fox". That way, the Hounds would know. The software could even pop a message up if a Hound tried to call in the wrong time sequence or below 1000 Hz. But, I understand that the development team is already strapped for bits in the Fox payload, so something like this is unlikely.

It would also be great if the default TX Freq for Foxes was 700 Hz. Although this shouldn't be true, a number of radios don't have good frequency response below about 400 Hz. Hounds get lost down there when called and are giving their reports. It's obviously possible for Foxes to set their TX Freq manually to account for this, but, they don't and just rely on the defaults. The problem isn't widely appreciated and just who reads the manual anyway?

I have other minor complaints based on observation over the past few years. Generally, it has nothing to do with the WSJT-X software and everything to do with people's operating habits. I supposed the WSJT-X development team could make changes to motivate better behavior, but would that really help? I don't know.

Clarke K1JX


JP Tucson, AZ
 

Hi Mike & all,

I have been asked this many times too, and even I too sometimes can't tell.

I think a solution would be to change the SYMBOL after the DT to a capitol 'F' for example.


Reino Talarmo
 

Hi JP,

I have been asked this many times too, and even I too sometimes can't tell.
1. In the WSJT-X message there is no allocation to indicate that the transmitting station is using Fox protocol.
2. Some derivate of the WSJT-X uses multiple carriers and the combined message RR73 and report without using the rest of DXpedition mode protocol.
3. Original DXpedition mode is functional on non-standard frequencies, the derivate works at any frequency.

I think a solution would be to change the SYMBOL after the DT to a capitol 'F' for example.
If a "full" analysis of the traffic from a station that may use DXpedition mode will be added into the reception program, then there could be a possibility to generate information needed to change the symbol to 'F'.
As the derivate programs and operators don't follow the 'rules', this addition to the WSJT-X is just waits of effort.
Perhaps somebody would design a companion program for that purpose, a nice exercise for AI, I think.

Happy DXing!
73, Reino OH3mA


JP Tucson, AZ
 

RE: Your 1)...

Let me be more clear...

Please refer to 12.2. Decoded Lines
Displayed information accompanying decoded messages generally includes UTC, signal-to-noise ratio in dB, time offset DT in seconds, and audio frequency in Hz. Some modes include additional information such as frequency offset from nominal (DF), frequency drift (Drift or F1), or distance (km or mi).

There may also be some cryptic characters with special meanings summarized in the following Table:

Table 5 ! MODE CHARACTERS !!!

FT4 +
FT8 ~
JT4 $
JT9 @
JT65 #
MSK144 &

It seems we could ADD a mode Character; like an 'F' or whatever character to indicate that the MODE IS F&H.

It could even add a background color change; so a bold, yellow F on a black background! If that doesn't say, "hey, I am on F&H", then apparently only a cast iron skillet upside the head could make it any more clear! Haha!


In fact, this could be coded so that those NOT using F/H get a warning,, etc. to reduce conflicts.