locked FT8 CPU #TechnicalHelpQuestion


Paul N3PS
 

WSJTX pretty much works on most Windows PCs made in the last decade . . . However, I’m curious as to what is the upper level of CPU recommendations for FT8 without hitting the point of diminishing returns on decode speed and completeness?
--
Paul / N3PS


Michael Black
 

The recommendation on upper level is "how much your budget can afford".
In reality most any decent dual or quad core will work if you're not doing a bunch of other stuff on the system.
What I always do is look at the price breakpoint.  Typically system cost is pretty linear until you get to the latest technology where it takes a big jump for little gain.
Biggest upgrade you can do relatively inexpensive is an SSD which can breath life into a borderline system.  Disk I/O is painful.
More bang for your buck from a desktop vs a laptop.
And I can recommend cyberpowerpc.com -- just got a system a few weeks ago from them and it's wonderful -- you can customize everything based on your budget.  My situation is a bit unique since I'm doing active development on hamlib, WSJT-X, and JTDX so I need some horsepower and ended up with a AMD Ryzen 16-core-32-thread system which cost around $3400 (2TB disk, 64GB memory).
One reason I went this way is because I wanted to be able to put in PCI cards (like a 5-port USB card) and the major vendors don't sell system like that anymore.  I have  some 12 USB devices plugged in.
Mike W9MDB

On Friday, December 31, 2021, 02:26:52 AM CST, Paul N3PS via groups.io <n3ps@...> wrote:

WSJTX pretty much works on most Windows PCs made in the last decade . . . However, I’m curious as to what is the upper level of CPU recommendations for FT8 without hitting the point of diminishing returns on decode speed and completeness?
--
Paul / N3PS


Jeff Stillinger
 

For how many instances of WSJT-X at a time?  Which processor (Intel, AMD, ARM)?  How much memory?  Which operating system (Windows, MacOS, Linux) and which version?   Planning on any support processes such as JTAlert, Grid Tracker, a log book, anything else the computer also be doing, such as being connected to the network.

What is the purpose behind your question, building a new computer or putting together some type of educational material?  There are different resources available targeted to address different purposes.

On 12/30/21 7:25 PM, Paul N3PS via groups.io wrote:
WSJTX pretty much works on most Windows PCs made in the last decade . . . However, I’m curious as to what is the upper level of CPU recommendations for FT8 without hitting the point of diminishing returns on decode speed and completeness?
--
Jeff Stillinger
KB6IBB Laboratories, Wylie Texas
http://kb6ibb-15.ham-radio-op.net/Ham-Radio/


Buddy Morgan
 

Mike: That was an excellent answer. I need to replace my hamshack Windows Computer. It's primary purpose is to run WSJT-X. I also have Microsoft Edge up all the time. During contests I run N1MM. That's about it. I would like to purchase a computer that will last me several years. I was thinking about purchasing an i7 or an i9. Based on the current plans for the WSJT-X software what is your opinion?
Buddy WB4OMG

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Black via groups.io <mdblack98@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2021 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] FT8 CPU #question

The recommendation on upper level is "how much your budget can afford".
In reality most any decent dual or quad core will work if you're not doing a bunch of other stuff on the system.
What I always do is look at the price breakpoint.  Typically system cost is pretty linear until you get to the latest technology where it takes a big jump for little gain.
Biggest upgrade you can do relatively inexpensive is an SSD which can breath life into a borderline system.  Disk I/O is painful.
More bang for your buck from a desktop vs a laptop.
And I can recommend cyberpowerpc.com -- just got a system a few weeks ago from them and it's wonderful -- you can customize everything based on your budget.  My situation is a bit unique since I'm doing active development on hamlib, WSJT-X, and JTDX so I need some horsepower and ended up with a AMD Ryzen 16-core-32-thread system which cost around $3400 (2TB disk, 64GB memory).
One reason I went this way is because I wanted to be able to put in PCI cards (like a 5-port USB card) and the major vendors don't sell system like that anymore.  I have  some 12 USB devices plugged in.
Mike W9MDB


    On Friday, December 31, 2021, 02:26:52 AM CST, Paul N3PS via groups.io <n3ps@...> wrote: 

WSJTX pretty much works on most Windows PCs made in the last decade . . . However, I’m curious as to what is the upper level of CPU recommendations for FT8 without hitting the point of diminishing returns on decode speed and completeness?
--
Paul / N3PS


Paul N3PS
 

Folks, just to be clear, my question is focussed purely on CPU specs running WSJTX for FT8 on a Windows . . . I get that more memory and SSDs everything faster and apps like Grid Tracker appreciate faster GPUs . . . I'm not looking for a lesson in overall sizing of a computer

I am sure WSJTX will decode FT8 on a I3 4 core processor just fine, but I am trying to understand the decode speed and completeness performance curve as you go up the CPU offering line (e.g., I3 > I5 > I7 > I9) . . . At some point, there will be diminishing returns on increasing CPU specs as it relates to WSJTX decoding FT8 . . .

Would be great for one of the WSTJX developers to weigh in on that performance curve . . .

--
Paul / N3PS


Chuck Hill K0MV
 

I also would like to know more about that performance curve.  And currently I have WSJT-X running on a MacBook Pro 2GHz i7 with SSD.  But I could put it on my MacBook Pro M1 with SSD.  Would I gain anything?

On 12/31/21 9:08 AM, Paul N3PS via groups.io wrote:
Folks, just to be clear, my question is focussed purely on CPU specs running WSJTX for FT8 on a Windows . . . I get that more memory and SSDs everything faster and apps like Grid Tracker appreciate faster GPUs . . . I'm not looking for a lesson in overall sizing of a computer

I am sure WSJTX will decode FT8 on a I3 4 core processor just fine, but I am trying to understand the decode speed and completeness performance curve as you go up the CPU offering line (e.g., I3 > I5 > I7 > I9) . . . At some point, there will be diminishing returns on increasing CPU specs as it relates to WSJTX decoding FT8 . . .

Would be great for one of the WSTJX developers to weigh in on that performance curve . . .
--
Charles K0MV


William Smith
 

Your question resembles the canonical “How long is a piece of string?” Nearly every time I’ve helped someone spec out a computer for what they swear is their complete list of criteria, there’s always something discovered later.

Sometimes it’s the obvious (sorry, the Chromebook doesn’t have drivers for your printer), sometimes it’s feature creep (yes, only wsjt. I promise. And JS8Call. And my logging program. And a dozen browser tabs, and…,)

Sometimes it’s something that didn’t exist when the machine was purchased. Did you spec out that 10-year-old machine for wsjt performance?

I usually tell people to get the most machine they can, focussing on the things that can’t be upgraded afterwards. If the CPU or RAM or disk drive is soldered in, get twice as much as you think you need. Constrained as always by what you can afford.

If there was only one Best Computer (or car or anything) there wouldn’t be so many options to choose from.

73, Willie N1JBJ

On Dec 31, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Paul N3PS via groups.io <n3ps@...> wrote:

my question is focussed purely on CPU specs running WSJTX for FT8 on a Windows


Jim Brown
 

On 12/31/2021 8:07 AM, Buddy Morgan via groups.io wrote:
I need to replace my hamshack Windows Computer.
Over the years, I've always tried to buy top brands of computers that were well equipped both for my business, and after retirement, for personal use. Since 1998, all of my laptops have been Thinkpads. My last non-laptop computer came with Win2000, and died a bit over a year ago.

The loaded i7 machine I bought for the shack in 2014 came with less RAM than I needed, and lacked the resources to run MSK144 at full frequency tolerance. When I realized that, I added RAM and an SSD. Now I can run SO2R RTTY contesting from it with two decode windows for each radio, N1MM, a browser with multiple windows, a stream of incoming spots, and the machine isn't even breathing hard! It's now going on 8 yrs old.

I've also had mostly good luck buying used Thinkpads (off-lease) -- only one of about ten had serious issues after only a few years.

73, Jim K9YC


David Maihofer <maihofer.david@...>
 

FYI-

Consider too what Windows11 will support. To my surprise my i-7 6700 (4 core) 32gb machine fails the upgrade requirements for windows11.

Having worked for Intel a number of years I can simply say as most folks figure that Microsoft/Intel market upgrades this way.

So consider your requirements as Windows 10 will be slotted for an EoL date, tbd. Too bad for a great processor will become obsolete as well.... but then again we have Windows7 users who will not let go of their machines because of good running obsolete apps...

David -ND7C

On Dec 31, 2021, at 15:09, William Smith <w_smith@...> wrote:

Your question resembles the canonical “How long is a piece of string?” Nearly every time I’ve helped someone spec out a computer for what they swear is their complete list of criteria, there’s always something discovered later.

Sometimes it’s the obvious (sorry, the Chromebook doesn’t have drivers for your printer), sometimes it’s feature creep (yes, only wsjt. I promise. And JS8Call. And my logging program. And a dozen browser tabs, and…,)

Sometimes it’s something that didn’t exist when the machine was purchased. Did you spec out that 10-year-old machine for wsjt performance?

I usually tell people to get the most machine they can, focussing on the things that can’t be upgraded afterwards. If the CPU or RAM or disk drive is soldered in, get twice as much as you think you need. Constrained as always by what you can afford.

If there was only one Best Computer (or car or anything) there wouldn’t be so many options to choose from.

73, Willie N1JBJ


On Dec 31, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Paul N3PS via groups.io <n3ps@...> wrote:

my question is focussed purely on CPU specs running WSJTX for FT8 on a Windows




Glenn M0JFG
 

I need to replace my hamshack Windows Computer.
For FT8 I have been using a Lenovo think centre M10. Seems to work well and was £100 of e-bay, an ex cooperate device with an i5 8GB RAM and a 500GB SSD.

M0JFG

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: 01 January 2022 04:12
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] FT8 CPU #question

On 12/31/2021 8:07 AM, Buddy Morgan via groups.io wrote:
I need to replace my hamshack Windows Computer.
Over the years, I've always tried to buy top brands of computers that were well equipped both for my business, and after retirement, for personal use. Since 1998, all of my laptops have been Thinkpads. My last non-laptop computer came with Win2000, and died a bit over a year ago.

The loaded i7 machine I bought for the shack in 2014 came with less RAM than I needed, and lacked the resources to run MSK144 at full frequency tolerance. When I realized that, I added RAM and an SSD. Now I can run SO2R RTTY contesting from it with two decode windows for each radio, N1MM, a browser with multiple windows, a stream of incoming spots, and the machine isn't even breathing hard! It's now going on 8 yrs old.

I've also had mostly good luck buying used Thinkpads (off-lease) -- only one of about ten had serious issues after only a few years.

73, Jim K9YC


Glenn M0JFG
 

Hi,

Windows 11, wait a year or two. My machine (Ryzen 2600X) should support it as well as the motherboard (Gigabyte Aorus M) BUT UEFI through supported does not work and BIOS updates did not take. So I have decided to stick to Windows 10 for now and upgrade with a Windows 11 proven motherboard in a year or so.

M0JFG.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Maihofer
Sent: 01 January 2022 08:00
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] FT8 CPU #question

FYI-

Consider too what Windows11 will support. To my surprise my i-7 6700 (4 core) 32gb machine fails the upgrade requirements for windows11.

Having worked for Intel a number of years I can simply say as most folks figure that Microsoft/Intel market upgrades this way.

So consider your requirements as Windows 10 will be slotted for an EoL date, tbd. Too bad for a great processor will become obsolete as well.... but then again we have Windows7 users who will not let go of their machines because of good running obsolete apps...

David -ND7C

On Dec 31, 2021, at 15:09, William Smith <w_smith@...> wrote:

Your question resembles the canonical “How long is a piece of string?” Nearly every time I’ve helped someone spec out a computer for what they swear is their complete list of criteria, there’s always something discovered later.

Sometimes it’s the obvious (sorry, the Chromebook doesn’t have drivers for your printer), sometimes it’s feature creep (yes, only wsjt. I promise. And JS8Call. And my logging program. And a dozen browser tabs, and…,)

Sometimes it’s something that didn’t exist when the machine was purchased. Did you spec out that 10-year-old machine for wsjt performance?

I usually tell people to get the most machine they can, focussing on the things that can’t be upgraded afterwards. If the CPU or RAM or disk drive is soldered in, get twice as much as you think you need. Constrained as always by what you can afford.

If there was only one Best Computer (or car or anything) there wouldn’t be so many options to choose from.

73, Willie N1JBJ


On Dec 31, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Paul N3PS via groups.io <n3ps@...> wrote:

my question is focussed purely on CPU specs running WSJTX for FT8 on a Windows




Roger
 

On 01/01/2022 10:55, Glen M0JFG wrote:
Hi,
Windows 11, wait a year or two. My machine (Ryzen 2600X) should support it as well as the motherboard (Gigabyte Aorus M) BUT UEFI through supported does not work and BIOS updates did not take. So I have decided to stick to Windows 10 for now and upgrade with a Windows 11 proven motherboard in a year or so.
M0JFG.
Can anyone explain why microsoft find it impossible to support relatively recent hardware? It's not good for the environment obsoleting perfectly good and usable hardware.

My mate's WSJTX is on a Dell computer which wont even run Windows 10 but has Linux installed and runs perfectly well.

It's all nonsense.

73
Roger
GW4HZA


Gilbert Baron
 

Most of the W10-W11 upgrade failures are because the motherboard does not have the Security Chip they require.

Outlook LT Gil W0MN
Hierro Candente Batir de Repente
44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Maihofer
Sent: Saturday, January 1, 2022 2:00 AM
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] FT8 CPU #question

FYI-

Consider too what Windows11 will support. To my surprise my i-7 6700 (4 core) 32gb machine fails the upgrade requirements for windows11.

Having worked for Intel a number of years I can simply say as most folks figure that Microsoft/Intel market upgrades this way.

So consider your requirements as Windows 10 will be slotted for an EoL date, tbd. Too bad for a great processor will become obsolete as well.... but then again we have Windows7 users who will not let go of their machines because of good running obsolete apps...

David -ND7C

On Dec 31, 2021, at 15:09, William Smith <w_smith@...> wrote:

Your question resembles the canonical “How long is a piece of string?” Nearly every time I’ve helped someone spec out a computer for what they swear is their complete list of criteria, there’s always something discovered later.

Sometimes it’s the obvious (sorry, the Chromebook doesn’t have drivers for your printer), sometimes it’s feature creep (yes, only wsjt. I promise. And JS8Call. And my logging program. And a dozen browser tabs, and…,)

Sometimes it’s something that didn’t exist when the machine was purchased. Did you spec out that 10-year-old machine for wsjt performance?

I usually tell people to get the most machine they can, focussing on the things that can’t be upgraded afterwards. If the CPU or RAM or disk drive is soldered in, get twice as much as you think you need. Constrained as always by what you can afford.

If there was only one Best Computer (or car or anything) there wouldn’t be so many options to choose from.

73, Willie N1JBJ


On Dec 31, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Paul N3PS via groups.io <n3ps@...> wrote:

my question is focussed purely on CPU specs running WSJTX for FT8 on a Windows










--
W0MN EN34rb 44.08226 N 92.51265 W

Hierro candente, batir de repente

HP Laptop


William Smith
 

When you say relatively recent, how many years are you thinking would be reasonable?

And yeah, when my Mac Minis are 'obsolete' (5-7 years) they make _killer_ Linux boxes!

73, Willie N1JBJ

On Jan 1, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Roger <groups@...> wrote:

Can anyone explain why microsoft find it impossible to support relatively recent hardware?


Roger
 

On 01/01/2022 14:49, William Smith wrote:
When you say relatively recent, how many years are you thinking would be reasonable?
And yeah, when my Mac Minis are 'obsolete' (5-7 years) they make _killer_ Linux boxes!
73, Willie N1JBJ
I would say a new computer should be supported for ten years.

73, Roger, GW4HZA