locked Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom


Gene Horr
 

7300 when in Rig split mode only.  No problem all other modes.  V2.4.0

When changing the TX offset frequency enough to require a change in the split frequency occasionally the base frequency will change.  It does not happen each time but the effect is cumulative.  For example:

TX Offset     Base   Split Freq
1500           28074       28074
500             28072.5    28074
2500           28072.5    28072.5
500             28072.5    28071.5
2500           28071       28071
500             28071       28072.5
2500           28071       28071
500             28069.5    28071
2500           28069.5    28069.5
500             28069.5    28068
- Choose 10m from the drop down box - 
500             28074       28069.50

As a WAG rather than sending a "set frequency to X, set split to Y" the software is sending "increase/decrease split by Z" but occasionally sends the "decrease by Z" to the base frequency rather than the split.  Choosing the band again in the drop down box appears to send a full "set frequency to X, set split to Y" command and everything goes back to where it should.  Until the TX offset is changed again.

Gene
NG1H


Bill Somerville
 

On 31/08/2021 21:35, Gene Horr wrote:
7300 when in Rig split mode only.  No problem all other modes.  V2.4.0

When changing the TX offset frequency enough to require a change in the split frequency occasionally the base frequency will change.  It does not happen each time but the effect is cumulative.  For example:

TX Offset     Base   Split Freq
1500           28074       28074
500             28072.5    28074
2500           28072.5    28072.5
500             28072.5    28071.5
2500           28071       28071
500             28071       28072.5
2500           28071       28071
500             28069.5    28071
2500           28069.5    28069.5
500             28069.5    28068
- Choose 10m from the drop down box -
500             28074       28069.50

As a WAG rather than sending a "set frequency to X, set split to Y" the software is sending "increase/decrease split by Z" but occasionally sends the "decrease by Z" to the base frequency rather than the split.  Choosing the band again in the drop down box appears to send a full "set frequency to X, set split to Y" command and everything goes back to where it should.  Until the TX offset is changed again.

Gene
NG1H
Hi Gene,

make sure you have "CI-V Transceive Mode" disabled on your IC-7300.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Gene Horr
 

make sure you have "CI-V Transceive Mode" disabled on your IC-7300

Makes no difference. Out of curiosity how would this effect the commands WSJT-X is sending out and how would this make the rig change frequency when there is no other equipment on the chain?



Martin G0HDB
 

On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 10:03 PM, Gene Horr wrote:
7300 when in Rig split mode only.  No problem all other modes.  V2.4.0

When changing the TX offset frequency enough to require a change in the split frequency occasionally the base frequency will change.  It does not happen each time but the effect is cumulative.  For example:
Gene:

You haven't said how you're implementing the CAT control of the 7300 but if it's CI-V via the 7300's USB port then you'll need to ensure that there's no RF getting into the USB connection - that can cause all sorts of random and intermittent errors on the USB bus.  Do you have any ferrites on the USB cable between the PC and the 7300?

Also, have you tried using the 'Fake It' option for split, to see if that makes any difference?

FWIW, I very occasionally saw a similar effect on my 7610 (when using 'Fake It' split mode) - the rig's frequency wouldn't always return to the correct 'base frequency' after the end of a Tx period, it would stay on the frequency selected at the start of the Tx period.  I changed the configuration of the ferrites on the USB connection between PC and rig, to put a more substantial common-mode choke at the PC end of the USB cable, and haven't seen the effect since.

--
Martin G0HDB


Bill Somerville
 

On 01/09/2021 15:01, Gene Horr wrote:
make sure you have "CI-V Transceive Mode" disabled on your IC-7300 Makes no difference. Out of curiosity how would this effect the commands WSJT-X is sending out and how would this make the rig change frequency when there is no other equipment on the chain?

Gene,

it was only a suggestion, CI-V Transceive Mode causes the rig to emit unsolicited CAT traffic which can collide with commands from a PC, that can result in very strange behaviour.

We have not had other reports of incorrect CAT control, as you describe, of the IC-7300 with WSJT-X v2.4.0. Are you using the built in Hamlib library for direct CAT control or one of the other proxy CAT control methods?

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Gene Horr
 

There are ferrites on the USB cable, but that is probably irrelevant because there is no RF being sent.  This is only occurring when changing the TX offset.  During all other activities, including transmission, everything works fine.  

The problem is intermittent though there seems to be a correlation with changing the offset quickly multiple times.

As mentioned this only occurs in split mode.  Fake it or no split does not cause this problem.

There are no other libraries loaded.  

As mentioned it appears that the software is sending a "change the frequency by 0.000xxx Mhz" rather than "change frequency to X.XXXXXX Mhz".  Is this what is occurring?

It is probably heavily out of date but I do have some experience in tracking down command issues on non-radio RS-232 and RS-485 systems.  I have no idea what is used with USB nowadays.  If anyone has a recommended method I could try to monitor the commands to see whether it is something happening on the computer side.  


Bill Somerville
 

On 02/09/2021 15:25, Gene Horr wrote:
There are ferrites on the USB cable, but that is probably irrelevant because there is no RF being sent.  This is only occurring when changing the TX offset.  During all other activities, including transmission, everything works fine.

The problem is intermittent though there seems to be a correlation with changing the offset quickly multiple times.

As mentioned this only occurs in split mode.  Fake it or no split does not cause this problem.

There are no other libraries loaded.

As mentioned it appears that the software is sending a "change the frequency by 0.000xxx Mhz" rather than "change frequency to X.XXXXXX Mhz".  Is this what is occurring?

It is probably heavily out of date but I do have some experience in tracking down command issues on non-radio RS-232 and RS-485 systems.  I have no idea what is used with USB nowadays.  If anyone has a recommended method I could try to monitor the commands to see whether it is something happening on the computer side.
Hi Gene,

all CAT QSY commands are to an absolute frequency, but WSJT-X does monitor the current frequency and calculates the split offset based on that. Therefore incorrect or corrupt frequency queries could have the effect you are seeing. If you can reproduce the issue easily then the best step forward is to enable CAT diagnostics to track down what is happening. CAT diagnostics will create a very big log if you cannot reproduce the issue in a few operations.

To get a CAT diagnostic log put the attached file into your WSJT-X configuration files directory (on MS Windows that is the same as the log files directory "Menu->File->Open log directory" - if you are on macOS or Linux then let me know and I will tell where to put the log configuration file), restart WSJT-X, carry out the minimum actions to reproduce the issue once, then quit WSJT-X. It will have created a file on your Desktop called "WSJT-X_RigControl.log". Send that file to me (g4wjs <at> classdesign <dot> com) for analysis please?

Once you have sent the log file revert to normal operation by deleting the wsjtx_log_config.ini file.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Sam Birnbaum
 

Hi Gene,

Sorry I am rather late to this thread but which ICOM radio are you using ?
On most early ICOM radios, the IC-V commands do not have a provision 
to directly change the frequency in the un-selected VFO. They must first
issue a VFO toggle command, then wait for ECHO msg then the CmdReply 
message indicating that the command was completed before changing the 
frequency and then toggling back to the original VFO.  This has to be done 
when using Split RIG. 

That may be why you are getting intermittent problems when switching 
offsets that quickly where the software has to actually change the un-selected 
VFO frequency. 

73,

Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Horr <genehorr@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 10:25 am
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

There are ferrites on the USB cable, but that is probably irrelevant because there is no RF being sent.  This is only occurring when changing the TX offset.  During all other activities, including transmission, everything works fine.  

The problem is intermittent though there seems to be a correlation with changing the offset quickly multiple times.

As mentioned this only occurs in split mode.  Fake it or no split does not cause this problem.

There are no other libraries loaded.  

As mentioned it appears that the software is sending a "change the frequency by 0.000xxx Mhz" rather than "change frequency to X.XXXXXX Mhz".  Is this what is occurring?

It is probably heavily out of date but I do have some experience in tracking down command issues on non-radio RS-232 and RS-485 systems.  I have no idea what is used with USB nowadays.  If anyone has a recommended method I could try to monitor the commands to see whether it is something happening on the computer side.  





Gene Horr
 

Ok, I'll try that.  I was able to download serial port monitoring software and was able to capture a short session.  

Gene
NG1H


Gene Horr
 

Sam: Icom 7300
Bill:  Files sent.

Looks like a jump occurs between time 17.063933 and time 17.347238 if I am reading the file correctly.


Gene Horr
 

Sam:

That may be why you are getting intermittent problems when switching 
offsets that quickly where the software has to actually change the un-selected 
VFO frequency. 

It is a 7300 about 4 months old with the latest firmware.  But something causing a delay would make sense.  So the software is sending a command to ultimately change VFO B but due to a delay  (or something) the radio is still on A and that frequency gets changed.  Then during a regular poll the software sees the changed A frequency and acts the same way as if I had just changed the frequency manually.   

Gene
NG1H



Sam Birnbaum
 

Hi Gene,

I would never swear to it, but I do know how its supposed to work as I wrote 
my own interface for the IC7300 for my home brewed logging program.

For the IC7300 I used the new CAT cmds x'25' & x'26' and their respective sub cmds   
to change the frequency and mode on the selected as well as for unselected VFO 
without resorting to toggling the VFOs.

When I interfaced my program to the Xeigu G90 and X5105, I had to 
resort to toggling the VFOs to read and set the unselected VFO's

Anyway I hope you can resolve the issue one way or another.
   
73,

Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Horr <genehorr@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 3:33 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

Sam:

That may be why you are getting intermittent problems when switching 
offsets that quickly where the software has to actually change the un-selected 
VFO frequency. 

It is a 7300 about 4 months old with the latest firmware.  But something causing a delay would make sense.  So the software is sending a command to ultimately change VFO B but due to a delay  (or something) the radio is still on A and that frequency gets changed.  Then during a regular poll the software sees the changed A frequency and acts the same way as if I had just changed the frequency manually.   


Gene

NG1H







Michael Black
 

That's what hamlib does now.

I added some change just a couple of weeks ago that completely implements this and we don't see any VFO swapping anymore on WSJTX or JTDX.

So it will be in the next release of each of those.

Mike W9MDB




On Thursday, September 2, 2021, 03:19:34 PM CDT, Sam Birnbaum via groups.io <w2jdb@...> wrote:


Hi Gene,

I would never swear to it, but I do know how its supposed to work as I wrote 
my own interface for the IC7300 for my home brewed logging program.

For the IC7300 I used the new CAT cmds x'25' & x'26' and their respective sub cmds   
to change the frequency and mode on the selected as well as for unselected VFO 
without resorting to toggling the VFOs.

When I interfaced my program to the Xeigu G90 and X5105, I had to 
resort to toggling the VFOs to read and set the unselected VFO's

Anyway I hope you can resolve the issue one way or another.
   
73,

Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Horr <genehorr@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 3:33 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

Sam:

That may be why you are getting intermittent problems when switching 
offsets that quickly where the software has to actually change the un-selected 
VFO frequency. 

It is a 7300 about 4 months old with the latest firmware.  But something causing a delay would make sense.  So the software is sending a command to ultimately change VFO B but due to a delay  (or something) the radio is still on A and that frequency gets changed.  Then during a regular poll the software sees the changed A frequency and acts the same way as if I had just changed the frequency manually.   


Gene

NG1H










Sam Birnbaum
 

Hi Mike,

That sounds good.

I also set transceive ('1a05007101') on and use Cmd x'00' and x'01' to accept 
unsolicited Frequency and Mode changes for the selected VFO. That relieved 
the need to read the selected VFO during the poll cycle. Seems to work extremely well.  

Don't know how that will complicate your code. 

Regards and  73,


Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Black via groups.io <mdblack98@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

That's what hamlib does now.

I added some change just a couple of weeks ago that completely implements this and we don't see any VFO swapping anymore on WSJTX or JTDX.

So it will be in the next release of each of those.

Mike W9MDB




On Thursday, September 2, 2021, 03:19:34 PM CDT, Sam Birnbaum via groups.io <w2jdb@...> wrote:


Hi Gene,

I would never swear to it, but I do know how its supposed to work as I wrote 
my own interface for the IC7300 for my home brewed logging program.

For the IC7300 I used the new CAT cmds x'25' & x'26' and their respective sub cmds   
to change the frequency and mode on the selected as well as for unselected VFO 
without resorting to toggling the VFOs.

When I interfaced my program to the Xeigu G90 and X5105, I had to 
resort to toggling the VFOs to read and set the unselected VFO's

Anyway I hope you can resolve the issue one way or another.
   
73,

Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Horr <genehorr@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 3:33 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

Sam:

That may be why you are getting intermittent problems when switching 
offsets that quickly where the software has to actually change the un-selected 
VFO frequency. 

It is a 7300 about 4 months old with the latest firmware.  But something causing a delay would make sense.  So the software is sending a command to ultimately change VFO B but due to a delay  (or something) the radio is still on A and that frequency gets changed.  Then during a regular poll the software sees the changed A frequency and acts the same way as if I had just changed the frequency manually.   


Gene

NG1H













Michael Black
 

That has never been implemented in hamlib but it's on my list for doing it in 4.4.

It's a bit of a major change since there's no polling inside hamlib right now but that may change too.

Mike W9MDB




On Thursday, September 2, 2021, 04:12:09 PM CDT, Sam Birnbaum via groups.io <w2jdb@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

That sounds good.

I also set transceive ('1a05007101') on and use Cmd x'00' and x'01' to accept 
unsolicited Frequency and Mode changes for the selected VFO. That relieved 
the need to read the selected VFO during the poll cycle. Seems to work extremely well.  

Don't know how that will complicate your code. 

Regards and  73,


Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Black via groups.io <mdblack98@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

That's what hamlib does now.

I added some change just a couple of weeks ago that completely implements this and we don't see any VFO swapping anymore on WSJTX or JTDX.

So it will be in the next release of each of those.

Mike W9MDB




On Thursday, September 2, 2021, 03:19:34 PM CDT, Sam Birnbaum via groups.io <w2jdb@...> wrote:


Hi Gene,

I would never swear to it, but I do know how its supposed to work as I wrote 
my own interface for the IC7300 for my home brewed logging program.

For the IC7300 I used the new CAT cmds x'25' & x'26' and their respective sub cmds   
to change the frequency and mode on the selected as well as for unselected VFO 
without resorting to toggling the VFOs.

When I interfaced my program to the Xeigu G90 and X5105, I had to 
resort to toggling the VFOs to read and set the unselected VFO's

Anyway I hope you can resolve the issue one way or another.
   
73,

Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Horr <genehorr@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 3:33 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

Sam:

That may be why you are getting intermittent problems when switching 
offsets that quickly where the software has to actually change the un-selected 
VFO frequency. 

It is a 7300 about 4 months old with the latest firmware.  But something causing a delay would make sense.  So the software is sending a command to ultimately change VFO B but due to a delay  (or something) the radio is still on A and that frequency gets changed.  Then during a regular poll the software sees the changed A frequency and acts the same way as if I had just changed the frequency manually.   


Gene

NG1H
















Sam Birnbaum
 

Hi Mike,

Ok, hope all goes smoothly. If you ever (I doubt it) need any info, please don't hesitate to ask.

73,

Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Black via groups.io <mdblack98@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@wsjtx.groups.io>; main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

That has never been implemented in hamlib but it's on my list for doing it in 4.4.

It's a bit of a major change since there's no polling inside hamlib right now but that may change too.

Mike W9MDB




On Thursday, September 2, 2021, 04:12:09 PM CDT, Sam Birnbaum via groups.io <w2jdb@...> wrote:


Hi Mike,

That sounds good.

I also set transceive ('1a05007101') on and use Cmd x'00' and x'01' to accept 
unsolicited Frequency and Mode changes for the selected VFO. That relieved 
the need to read the selected VFO during the poll cycle. Seems to work extremely well.  

Don't know how that will complicate your code. 

Regards and  73,


Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Black via groups.io <mdblack98@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

That's what hamlib does now.

I added some change just a couple of weeks ago that completely implements this and we don't see any VFO swapping anymore on WSJTX or JTDX.

So it will be in the next release of each of those.

Mike W9MDB




On Thursday, September 2, 2021, 03:19:34 PM CDT, Sam Birnbaum via groups.io <w2jdb@...> wrote:


Hi Gene,

I would never swear to it, but I do know how its supposed to work as I wrote 
my own interface for the IC7300 for my home brewed logging program.

For the IC7300 I used the new CAT cmds x'25' & x'26' and their respective sub cmds   
to change the frequency and mode on the selected as well as for unselected VFO 
without resorting to toggling the VFOs.

When I interfaced my program to the Xeigu G90 and X5105, I had to 
resort to toggling the VFOs to read and set the unselected VFO's

Anyway I hope you can resolve the issue one way or another.
   
73,

Sam W2JDB



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Horr <genehorr@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2021 3:33 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Intermittent Base Frequency Change When Changing TX Offset #Cat_RigControl #Icom

Sam:

That may be why you are getting intermittent problems when switching 
offsets that quickly where the software has to actually change the un-selected 
VFO frequency. 

It is a 7300 about 4 months old with the latest firmware.  But something causing a delay would make sense.  So the software is sending a command to ultimately change VFO B but due to a delay  (or something) the radio is still on A and that frequency gets changed.  Then during a regular poll the software sees the changed A frequency and acts the same way as if I had just changed the frequency manually.   


Gene

NG1H



















Bill Somerville
 

On 02/09/2021 20:17, Gene Horr wrote:
Sam: Icom 7300
Bill:  Files sent.

Looks like a jump occurs between time 17.063933 and time 17.347238 if I am reading the file correctly.
Gene,

thanks for the log file. Surprised to find you are using HRD for rig control, you had not mentioned that. Did this problem start happening after an update to HRD?

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Gene Horr
 

Did this problem start happening after an update to HRD?

There have been no updates that I know of. I'll look up the version when I get back to the house. After getting the 7300 I had an antenna damaged in a storm. I only recently started using the 7300 heavily and just noticed the correlation with the TX Offset change. Before when it happened I thought I was bumping the frequency knob (and may have been doing that too. My desk was a little cluttered.) So I really don't know how long it has been occurring. Since it takes a large change in offset frequency to make this happen and usually my changes are small it may have been going on a long time I just never happened to trigger the behavior at the same time I was watching the radio frequency display.

Gene
NG1H