locked When to expect a good echo from the moon on 2m? #adiFiles #Echo


Ignacy Misztal
 

I am trying to get an echo from the moon on 2m using the "echo" mode in WSJT. My setup is FT991A, TE Systems amp running about 150W with a GaAsFet preamp, and Cuscraft A14810S 10 el beam. After a few minutes of cycling, there is not a  trace of an echo. Is the echo expected from a setup like mine?

The antenna has low SWR. The preamp seem to work and the noise slightly increases with the preamp when the antenna is connected.

I get partial readings in JT65B. Before I got the complete one with a Down East preamp (now burned). So perhaps there is something wrong with my setup.

Ignacy NO9E


Bill Somerville
 

On 13/08/2021 00:44, Ignacy Misztal wrote:
I am trying to get an echo from the moon on 2m using the "echo" mode in WSJT. My setup is FT991A, TE Systems amp running about 150W with a GaAsFet preamp, and Cuscraft A14810S 10 el beam. After a few minutes of cycling, there is not a  trace of an echo. Is the echo expected from a setup like mine?

The antenna has low SWR. The preamp seem to work and the noise slightly increases with the preamp when the antenna is connected.

I get partial readings in JT65B. Before I got the complete one with a Down East preamp (now burned). So perhaps there is something wrong with my setup.

Ignacy NO9E
Hi Ignacy,

a 10 el Yagi and 150 W on 2m is a pretty small 2m EME setup, you may get echo reception when conditions are optimal. You must consider the distance to the Moon, and Faraday rotation which can both further reduce your returned signal. You may be better to arrange a sked with a bigger station who will have a better chance hearing and working you.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Charles Suckling
 

Hi Ignacy

Is your beam capable of elevation, or fixed at the horizon?  If it is fixed at the horizon, and you have reasonably clear takeoff to the moon when rising or setting, you could possibly look to ground gain as way of helping you. There should be plenty of references to this on the internet, possibly including calculators that can tell you what the optimum elevation of the moon would be (not your antenna) based on antenna gain and height above ground.

As Bill says, you may initially be better off looking for a large station to test with.

73

Charlie G3WDG


On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 at 07:34, Ignacy Misztal <no9e@...> wrote:
I am trying to get an echo from the moon on 2m using the "echo" mode in WSJT. My setup is FT991A, TE Systems amp running about 150W with a GaAsFet preamp, and Cuscraft A14810S 10 el beam. After a few minutes of cycling, there is not a  trace of an echo. Is the echo expected from a setup like mine?

The antenna has low SWR. The preamp seem to work and the noise slightly increases with the preamp when the antenna is connected.

I get partial readings in JT65B. Before I got the complete one with a Down East preamp (now burned). So perhaps there is something wrong with my setup.

Ignacy NO9E



Joe WB9SBD
 

I agree with the larger station.
When I did EME it was in the late 80's none of this incredible software it was CW and all by ear.

I never ever heard my own echos. but I still did work off the moon probably 50 different stations. Then I blew up the radio (long story)

So try to make some skeds with larger stations.

Joe WB9SBD

On 8/13/2021 1:15 AM, Charles Suckling wrote:

Hi Ignacy

Is your beam capable of elevation, or fixed at the horizon?  If it is fixed at the horizon, and you have reasonably clear takeoff to the moon when rising or setting, you could possibly look to ground gain as way of helping you. There should be plenty of references to this on the internet, possibly including calculators that can tell you what the optimum elevation of the moon would be (not your antenna) based on antenna gain and height above ground.

As Bill says, you may initially be better off looking for a large station to test with.

73

Charlie G3WDG


On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 at 07:34, Ignacy Misztal <no9e@...> wrote:
I am trying to get an echo from the moon on 2m using the "echo" mode in WSJT. My setup is FT991A, TE Systems amp running about 150W with a GaAsFet preamp, and Cuscraft A14810S 10 el beam. After a few minutes of cycling, there is not a  trace of an echo. Is the echo expected from a setup like mine?

The antenna has low SWR. The preamp seem to work and the noise slightly increases with the preamp when the antenna is connected.

I get partial readings in JT65B. Before I got the complete one with a Down East preamp (now burned). So perhaps there is something wrong with my setup.

Ignacy NO9E







Lance Collister, W7GJ
 

Hi Ignacy,

It sounds like you will also need a good external low noise preamp and low loss feedline. The fact that the noise only slightly increases with the preamp and the antenna connected is not an encouraging sign... Look for a big EME station who can run a Q65-60A sked with you! GL and VY 73, Lance

On 8/12/2021 23:44:07, Ignacy Misztal wrote:
I am trying to get an echo from the moon on 2m using the "echo" mode in WSJT. My setup is FT991A, TE Systems amp running about 150W with a GaAsFet preamp, and Cuscraft A14810S 10 el beam. After a few minutes of cycling, there is not a  trace of an echo. Is the echo expected from a setup like mine?

The antenna has low SWR. The preamp seem to work and the noise slightly increases with the preamp when the antenna is connected.

I get partial readings in JT65B. Before I got the complete one with a Down East preamp (now burned). So perhaps there is something wrong with my setup.

Ignacy NO9E

--
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Richard Hattaway
 

Hi Ignacy,

I agree with others, conditions would have to be optimal to receive your echoes.  You did not mention if your amp and preamp were mast mounted.  That would help to get your station EME capable. 

Also, consider using sun noise to determine if your receiver is doing OK... Some here may well have the proper measurement technique for your setup, but just seeing the noise would be a good step.  Assuming you are not equipped for elevation ( big assumption ) then point the antenna at the horizon where the sun is predicted to go down, and watch it drop.  In my EME days I had a small chart recorder tied to my receiver and I used this method to detect any changes in the system the week before 'EME Weekend'. 

Have fun.. hearing your echoes is a real thrill .. seeing them on a screen would be pretty cool too :) ..
--
73
Dick

W4PID@...


Ignacy Misztal
 

I hand point the antenna and the cable is short. Hearing the echo in CW is an art, but hearing an echo as programmed into WSJT ( 2 s repeated transmissions over several minutes) should be simpler. 

Will made the "Sun" check and also will try getting better antennas. 

Ignacy NO9E