Locked A Few Minor Q65 Things to Report #WSJTX_config #Q65
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Joe Dz
All seems to work well. Just a couple of small things to report so far. I run a TR590SG in one configuration and an IC-9700 in a second configuration. Running V2.4.0-rc1, Windows 10, 64 bit.
1. In the TS590SG configuration on 50.275, Q65-30A, the Tx6 check box next to the Call 1st is gray and can not be checked. All else seems to work just fine. 2. When I change configurations to the IC-9700 and go to 144.170 Q65-30A, the Tx6 check box is no longer gray. However, my CQ K1YOW FN42 inside of Tx6 now reads: @1000 (TUNE). If I put in CQ K1YOW FN42, all is OK for the CQ. I then switched back to the TS590SG and Tx6 still has my call. So just to see, I switched again to the IC-9700 configuration, and Tx6 again showed @1000 (TUNE) instead of CQ K1YOW FN42. All in all, I have V2.4.0-rc1 working fine so far and it coexists just fine with fldigi as well using W10 64 bits. 73, Joe, K1YOW |
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Joe Dz
I found out what the issue was, and it is not configuration change related but it only happens when in Q65.
On the IC-9700, I had Sh checked from the last time I ran MSK144 on 2 meters. So, no matter which rig or configuration, clicking on Sh changes the Tx6 box from CQ K1YOW FN42 to @1000 (TUNE). If I uncheck Sh, the CQ K1YOW FN42 comes back. Likewise checking and un-checking Sh also toggles the Tx6 check box from grayed-out to not.
So....I accidently had Sh checked in Q65 mode, but it may still be unwanted behavior replacing CQ K1YOW FN42 with @1000 (TUNE) when Sh is checked.
Joe, K1YOW
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Joe Dz
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 2:28 PM To: main@WSJTX.groups.io Subject: [WSJTX] A Few Minor Q65 Things to Report #WSJTX_config #Q65
All seems to work well. Just a couple of small things to report
so far. I run a TR590SG in one configuration and an IC-9700 in a second
configuration. Running V2.4.0-rc1, Windows 10, 64 bit. |
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I did a quick test toggling the "Sh" box and the "Tx6" box. I guess that "Sh" stands for 'Shorthand', as in the Shorthand messaging used in other modes? So, clicking on "Sh" changes Tx4 to "@1500(RRRR) which I guess means it's going to transmit the shorthand message "RRR" at 1500Hz audio offset? It also sets Tx5 to @1750 (73) and Tx6 to @1000 (Tune). Clicking on the Tx6 box changed the Tx6 option to @1250 (SEND MSGS), I'm not sure what will do? Will it just send "SEND MSGS" on 1250Hz audio offset? What will that mean or do? I guess we will have to wait for the full explanation in the updated manual. If I am correct about the @X frequencies being the audio frequency used to send the various texts in the brackets, then people are going to need to know because, at present, the testing I've seen going on has been audio frequency specific. So, someone is, say, using 600Hz, someone else, say, 1000Hz, another on 1500Hz and so on up the audio bandwidth. If stations suddenly start using these Sh options, and if I'm right about what the @X means, then it is going to start causing a bit of confusion, I think... Cheers - Dave (G0DJA) |
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Hi Joe,
that is expected behaviour. The short
code messages in Q65 mode *are* single tones. Single tones
are used by some EME operators to complete QSOs with maximum
sensitivity.
73
Bill G4WJS. On 12/02/2021 20:48, Joe Dz wrote:
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Rex Moncur
Hi Joe
Checking Sh to send single tones such as @1000 Hz = tune, @1250 Hz=Send Messages, @1500 Hz=RRR and @1750 Hz=73 is the expected behaviour. It is used to complete very weak or marginal QSOs on microwaves as has been implemented on QRA64 for the last few years and now on Q65. See below. If the pictures don't get through this reflector send me and email to rmoncur AT bigpond.net.au and I will send your this email direct.
While Single tones can also be used at VHF one needs to take more care to make sure they derive from the station you are working so they probably won't generally be used at VHF where there are many more stations operating. The SH double tones as used on JT65 are no longer available as these are 3 dB weaker than single tones and have little advantage with the more sensitive Q65. But their use is still subject to review by the Development Team.
On receive you read the Single tones directly from the waterfall or if signals are very weak you read them from the Linear Average Spectrum Graph which integrates them over the full TX period. On QRA64 the use of these tones gives 4 to 5 dB advantage in completing a QSO after callsigns and full numerical reports are exchanged in the normal way. As Q65 is more sensitive you won't get quite this much benefit. To get the 1250 Hz tone you need to tick the TX6 box next to Call 1st which changes the message in TX6 box from 1000 Hz to 1250 Hz as below:
73 Rex VK7MO |
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Rex Moncur
Hi Dave
The spectrum below the waterfall has indicator letters T, M, R and 73 which correspond to the single tones and they move with reference to the frequency you are working such as 600 Hz to they still read correctly.
73 Rex VK7MO
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Ackrill
Sent: Saturday, 13 February 2021 8:29 AM To: main@WSJTX.groups.io Subject: Re: [WSJTX] A Few Minor Q65 Things to Report #WSJTX_config #Q65
I did a quick test toggling the "Sh" box and the "Tx6" box. I guess that "Sh" stands for 'Shorthand', as in the Shorthand messaging used in other modes? So, clicking on "Sh" changes Tx4 to "@1500(RRRR) which I guess means it's going to transmit the shorthand message "RRR" at 1500Hz audio offset? It also sets Tx5 to @1750 (73) and Tx6 to @1000 (Tune). Clicking on the Tx6 box changed the Tx6 option to @1250 (SEND MSGS), I'm not sure what will do? Will it just send "SEND MSGS" on 1250Hz audio offset? What will that mean or do? I guess we will have to wait for the full explanation in the updated manual. If I am correct about the @X frequencies being the audio frequency used to send the various texts in the brackets, then people are going to need to know because, at present, the testing I've seen going on has been audio frequency specific. So, someone is, say, using 600Hz, someone else, say, 1000Hz, another on 1500Hz and so on up the audio bandwidth. If stations suddenly start using these Sh options, and if I'm right about what the @X means, then it is going to start causing a bit of confusion, I think... Cheers - Dave (G0DJA) |
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Joe Dz
OK Bill. Thanks. Interesting. Thank you for the reply.
Joe, K1YOW
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Bill Somerville
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 3:53 PM To: main@WSJTX.groups.io Subject: Re: [WSJTX] A Few Minor Q65 Things to Report #WSJTX_config #Q65
Hi Joe,
that is expected behaviour. The short code messages in Q65 mode *are* single tones. Single tones are used by some EME operators to complete QSOs with maximum sensitivity.
73
On 12/02/2021 20:48, Joe Dz wrote:
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Hi Rex, No, they don't, at least not in some modes of Q65. For example, Q65 30A looks like this with Sh selected...
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Yes Bill, I agree, but that's not what many operators who are testing Q65 seem to be expecting... They are, maybe wrongly, assuming that Q65 will somehow replace FT8 or FT4. Much of the testing, that I've seen so far on 6M, is people looking at specific audio frequencies and trying to pick out other stations on specific audio frequencies. Once single audio transmissions on non-frequency dependant settings start happening then, I guess, people not used to EME style systems, are going to start to wonder about Q65. Already I am seeing comments about how 'slow' Q65 is compared with FT8 and, I guess, people are expecting something that will be "better" than FT8 and quicker...
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neil_zampella <neilz@...>
Obviously no one takes the time to read the Q65 Quick Start guide
...
https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/Q65_Quick_Start.pdf On 2/12/2021 5:47 PM, David Ackrill
wrote:
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Rex Moncur
Hi David
You are right this feature is not implemented on the A and B sub-modes which is probably an oversight for a Beta test version. But it does work well on the C, D and E sub-modes that are primarily used for weak signal microwave EME and Terrestrial where this feature is used.
73 Rex VK7MO
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Ackrill
Sent: Saturday, 13 February 2021 10:37 AM To: main@WSJTX.groups.io Subject: Re: [WSJTX] A Few Minor Q65 Things to Report #WSJTX_config #Q65
Hi Rex, No, they don't, at least not in some modes of Q65. For example, Q65 30A looks like this with Sh selected...
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Lance Collister, W7GJ <w7gj@...>
Hi Rex,
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I am not trying to debate what makes a QSO, I am just interested in trying to learn how the Q65 SH messages are used in microwave EME. Traditionally, I know the TMO report system was used to provide information about how well a signal was being received, but O was the only indication that complete calls were received, so it was the only exchange that counted for a completion. Has that changed now on microwave EME, or what are the T and M traces used for? MNI TNX and VY 73, Lance On 2/13/2021 02:01:31, Rex Moncur wrote:
--
Lance Collister, W7GJ(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K, KH8/W7GJ, V6M, T8GJ, VK9CGJ, VK9XGJ, C21GJ, CP1GJ, S79GJ, TX7MB) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073 USA TEL: (406) 626-5728 QTH: DN27ub URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj Skype: lanceW7GJ 2m DXCC #11 - 6m DXCC #815 - FFMA #7 Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the new Magic Band EME email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web page (above)! |
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Many hints for using WSJT-X for microwave EME can be found in a User Guide link under VHF+ features (near the end of Section 8.4):
https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-2.4.0-rc1.html#VHF_AND_UP "Single tone messages can be used to save time under marginal conditions. The program does not decode these – it us up the operator to interpret their meanings from the yellow average spectrum. The letters T, M, R and 73 signify Tuning tone, please send Messages, Roger, and 73." -- 73, Joe, K1JT |
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Lance Collister, W7GJ <w7gj@...>
MNI TNX Rex!
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I was unaware of that, so was surprised when it surfaced as the new SH option in the new Q65 mode. Some of us old timers remember that TMO reports on EME had an entirely different meaning 50 years ago. There has been some confusion among experienced VHF EME'ers who were accustomed to totally different SH messages in JT65... I will try to spread the word! MNI TNX and GL! VY 73, Lance On 2/27/2021 20:01:09, Rex Moncur wrote:
Hi Lance --
Lance Collister, W7GJ(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K, KH8/W7GJ, V6M, T8GJ, VK9CGJ, VK9XGJ, C21GJ, CP1GJ, S79GJ, TX7MB) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073 USA TEL: (406) 626-5728 QTH: DN27ub URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj Skype: lanceW7GJ 2m DXCC #11 - 6m DXCC #815 - FFMA #7 Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the new Magic Band EME email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web page (above)! |
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