locked Crowded frequencies


James Gill
 

I'm relatively new to WSJT-X and FT8. I'm enjoying it very much but . . . sometimes, particularly on the weekends, the frequencies are so crowded I can't find a place to park. Another website I ran across listed 7.071 as an alternate 40m frequency but when I've listened there, I don't hear anyone. I would think when the solar cycle gets hot it's going to be even worse. Are there alternate frequencies I haven't heard about yet?

73s

Jim - W4GMU


Anthony Luscre
 

Give FT4 a try especially on 40 and 20 meters, less crowded


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:05 AM James Gill via groups.io <jimvgill=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm relatively new to WSJT-X and FT8. I'm enjoying it very much but . . . sometimes, particularly on the weekends, the frequencies are so crowded I can't find a place to park. Another website I ran across listed 7.071 as an alternate 40m frequency but when I've listened there, I don't hear anyone. I would think when the solar cycle gets hot it's going to be even worse. Are there alternate frequencies I haven't heard about yet?

73s

Jim - W4GMU




--
Anthony Luscre

K8ZT
Ohio Section Section Youth Coordinator & Education Outreach
ARRL - The National Association For Amateur Radio™
 
k8zt@... (best for Amateur Radio)

The Web Resource Hoarder- www.ZTLearn.com

K8ZT Radio Website- www.k8zt.com

Amateur Radio Resources for Students/Youth - www.k8zt.com/hry


Jamie GOLLY
 

I totally agree on using FT4, I wish more people would give it a try. 


On Dec 17, 2020, at 9:27 AM, Anthony Luscre <k8zt73@...> wrote:


Give FT4 a try especially on 40 and 20 meters, less crowded

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:05 AM James Gill via groups.io <jimvgill=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm relatively new to WSJT-X and FT8. I'm enjoying it very much but . . . sometimes, particularly on the weekends, the frequencies are so crowded I can't find a place to park. Another website I ran across listed 7.071 as an alternate 40m frequency but when I've listened there, I don't hear anyone. I would think when the solar cycle gets hot it's going to be even worse. Are there alternate frequencies I haven't heard about yet?

73s

Jim - W4GMU




--
Anthony Luscre

K8ZT
Ohio Section Section Youth Coordinator & Education Outreach
ARRL - The National Association For Amateur Radio™
 
k8zt@... (best for Amateur Radio)

The Web Resource Hoarder- www.ZTLearn.com

K8ZT Radio Website- www.k8zt.com

Amateur Radio Resources for Students/Youth - www.k8zt.com/hry




mchenryproj <mchenryproj@...>
 

40m is a crazy hotbed where I seldom make a contact because when you do find a station you wish to contact, the responding stations create a digital pileup. I do get to catch a few here and there.  I digress, but I do that a lot...

Try FT4.  On the same band it's a lot less used so you have a better chance of catching some attention.

Best of luck,

Sean
KB8JNE

Spell checked by the NSA.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:06 AM, James Gill via groups.io
<jimvgill@...> wrote:
I'm relatively new to WSJT-X and FT8. I'm enjoying it very much but . . . sometimes, particularly on the weekends, the frequencies are so crowded I can't find a place to park. Another website I ran across listed 7.071 as an alternate 40m frequency but when I've listened there, I don't hear anyone. I would think when the solar cycle gets hot it's going to be even worse. Are there alternate frequencies I haven't heard about yet?

73s

Jim - W4GMU



Jason B
 

Yes, I've had issues myself with FT-8 on 40 meters. I had a perfectly clear slot, was calling a DX station and suddenly I saw KB5VXX QRM...I immediately hit halt TX and went to look where I was transmitting, but still didn't see anyone in the slot I had chosen. Idk, but it was pretty crowded. First time I've ever been called out for QRM. I call myself trying to be careful. Oops. 


Markku SM5FLM
 

Even if a slot is empty at your location, you don't know if the slot is empty in other places.

This is a problem when calling as station. On which frequency should you transmit? I have found it's best to use frequencies high >2500 or low <500, even if the more middle one's seems to be unused.


mchenryproj <mchenryproj@...>
 

One of the cool things about the digital concept is that you can return or instigate a call anywhere in the audio range and still get responses or complete a Q.

If I see that someone interesting is on say 1100 Hz but it is crowded there or say the opposite "time slot" has many people returning their CQ, you can pick an open space in the audio spectrum and still return the call successfully. I think a lot of folks forget this at times.

The other thing is, if I am responding to a CW half the world away I have to realize that just because a spot seems empty in the spectrum at my location, there could be half a dozen people in that range where the person calling CQ is.  I hear this happen all the time on SSB and everyone immediately goes all negative on the party returning the call but they too need to realize that where I am it may be a totally empty spot in the spectrum.

As the band evolves we sort of drift into each other and folks get all upset that someone is on top of them, mid QSO when what may have happened is 2 complete conversations were happening on the same frequency but due to changing "conditions" they start drifting in top of each other when earlier they could successfully have both conversations happening without issue.

Anyway, it's crowded at times so everyone should have some benefit of the doubt in their heads in such situations.  As I mentioned, I jump over to FT4 if it's too crowded.

Happy Holidays everyone.

Sean
KB8JNE

Spell checked by the NSA.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 1:54 AM, Jason B
<sydbowen@...> wrote:



Angelo Bione
 

Try 60M. I have been enjoying this band for some time.


Bob McGraw - K4TAX <rmcgraw@...>
 

The software does a great job in terms of timing.  Also, it deals very efficiently with QRM from adjacent stations.   What is unknown is how your radio AGC deals with strong signals.   What I find in a crowded band, when I'm transmitting, other stations I saw on my waterfall are receiving.   Also, the software will select if you should use even or odd  time segments.   Although I've called stations and had others answer by the station I was calling, I wait for them to send RR73 or RRR and then call them again.    There's lots of "channels" in the WSJT-X FT-8 segment.

I find that many stations are running excessive power.  Not wanting to start a power war but remember we should run the power needed for effective communication.  And this is not a specifically a "low power mode".    Just try working the JA's on 160 M and you'll see what I mean.   I typically run 100 watts or less, depending on band conditions, although I may run more if needed.  But never run everything at full bore just to make contacts.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/18/2020 12:31 AM, Jason B wrote:
Yes, I've had issues myself with FT-8 on 40 meters. I had a perfectly clear slot, was calling a DX station and suddenly I saw KB5VXX QRM...I immediately hit halt TX and went to look where I was transmitting, but still didn't see anyone in the slot I had chosen. Idk, but it was pretty crowded. First time I've ever been called out for QRM. I call myself trying to be careful. Oops. 



Virus-free. www.avg.com


lmeeny
 

Hello,

Just an observation ... in my experience WSJT-X can decode signals just a few Hz apart.

Ed W2GHD


James Gill
 

Thanks to everyone who responded to my "crowded frequencies" email.

I almost never respond to a CQ on the caller's frequency although I often get calls on "my" frequency. In some respects that's not a bad idea. If I find an empty "channel" (it looks like a channel on the waterfall), unless I'm completely confused and I often am at my age, what I am seeing is not the time slot I will transmit on but the time slot I would listen on. So that time slot would be open for someone to call me on. Of course, if more than one person calls -- and I'm always surprised when that happens -- it may make things difficult. I try to remind myself that since I can't see the time slot I will transmit on, I may not be on a frequency that is not in use. And I hate it when WSJT-X sends a call 8 seconds late and can't be decoded. That's just QRM.

I've been a ham for 60 years (not active in many of them) and I've never been able to work DX the way I have with FT8 over the last couple months with my 20 watts and a wire antenna. I have worked South Africa and New Zealand for the FIRST time. I had two stations in France call me after one CQ which was a pleasant shock. And, I worked both of them! I've never had a dx station answer my CQ until FT8.

The last "On the Air" magazine had an article about making a dual band antenna with ladder line. I'm going to try it for 30 and 17. My EFHW works 40-20-15 and 10. I think 30 may be an option when 40 is jammed.

I will also try FT4 if I can figure out how to do it.

It was also suggested to me that I could use the edges of the band by moving my VFO up or down a little bit. I will be trying that. The bottom edge seems to be busier than the top edge.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions. Sorry to run on so long.

73s

Jim - W4GMU


NR4U Bob AFMARS
 

On 12/18/2020 09:16, lmeeny wrote:
Hello,

Just an observation ... in my experience WSJT-X can decode signals just
a few Hz apart.

Thanks for saying that. Saved me ti me, hihi

literally, just a few or maybe even one Hz apart. Many times.


--
73
Bob KD7YZ
AMSAT LM #901


--
--
Bob KD7YZ in NE Kentucky


K8BL BOB LIDDY <k8bl@...>
 

Lots of excellent comments/suggestions have come on this thread. Bravo!!

For my 2 cents, I have observed a thick cluster of stations smack in the
middle of the audio bandpass. They sit right on 1500 Hz +/- 500 Hz. Folks
having trouble making Q's might want to try what QRPers do and that is
to hang out on the edges of busy portions where there is a lesser chance
of being covered by stronger stations. Try going around 500 or 2500 Hz
and you'll see your contacts increase. I usually run 10-30W and that has
worked well for me.

GL/73,   Bob  K8BL


On Friday, December 18, 2020, 09:19:44 AM EST, Bob McGraw - K4TAX <rmcgraw@...> wrote:


The software does a great job in terms of timing.  Also, it deals very efficiently with QRM from adjacent stations.   What is unknown is how your radio AGC deals with strong signals.   What I find in a crowded band, when I'm transmitting, other stations I saw on my waterfall are receiving.   Also, the software will select if you should use even or odd  time segments.   Although I've called stations and had others answer by the station I was calling, I wait for them to send RR73 or RRR and then call them again.    There's lots of "channels" in the WSJT-X FT-8 segment.

I find that many stations are running excessive power.  Not wanting to start a power war but remember we should run the power needed for effective communication.  And this is not a specifically a "low power mode".    Just try working the JA's on 160 M and you'll see what I mean.   I typically run 100 watts or less, depending on band conditions, although I may run more if needed.  But never run everything at full bore just to make contacts.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/18/2020 12:31 AM, Jason B wrote:
Yes, I've had issues myself with FT-8 on 40 meters. I had a perfectly clear slot, was calling a DX station and suddenly I saw KB5VXX QRM...I immediately hit halt TX and went to look where I was transmitting, but still didn't see anyone in the slot I had chosen. Idk, but it was pretty crowded. First time I've ever been called out for QRM. I call myself trying to be careful. Oops. 



  

Virus-free. www.avg.com



Kermit Lehman
 

  Jim writes:

I almost never respond to a CQ on the caller's frequency ...

My rule is: If someone makes an initial CQ it I'll jump right on his frequency.  Often that's all the time I have for and I hope I'll be the first one in.

But if he comes back to someone else, I'll move my TX to a vacant spot not too far away (if there is one) and tail end after his final 73 or RR73 transmission.  Repeat as necessary.  That often works, especially when a whole crowd of people jump on his frequency all at once and obliterate each other.

73,
Ken, AB1J


-----Original Message-----
From: James Gill via groups.io <jimvgill@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2020 2:52 pm
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Crowded frequencies

Thanks to everyone who responded to my "crowded frequencies" email.

I almost never respond to a CQ on the caller's frequency although I often get calls on "my" frequency. In some respects that's not a bad idea. If I find an empty "channel" (it looks like a channel on the waterfall), unless I'm completely confused and I often am at my age, what I am seeing is not the time slot I will transmit on but the time slot I would listen on. So that time slot would be open for someone to call me on. Of course, if more than one person calls -- and I'm always surprised when that happens -- it may make things difficult. I try to remind myself that since I can't see the time slot I will transmit on, I may not be on a frequency that is not in use. And I hate it when WSJT-X sends a call 8 seconds late and can't be decoded. That's just QRM.

I've been a ham for 60 years (not active in many of them) and I've never been able to work DX the way I have with FT8 over the last couple months with my 20 watts and a wire antenna. I have worked South Africa and New Zealand for the FIRST time. I had two stations in France call me after one CQ which was a pleasant shock. And, I worked both of them! I've never had a dx station answer my CQ until FT8.

The last "On the Air" magazine had an article about making a dual band antenna with ladder line. I'm going to try it for 30 and 17. My EFHW works 40-20-15 and 10. I think 30 may be an option when 40 is jammed.

I will also try FT4 if I can figure out how to do it.

It was also suggested to me that I could use the edges of the band by moving my VFO up or down a little bit. I will be trying that. The bottom edge seems to be busier than the top edge.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions. Sorry to run on so long.


73s

Jim - W4GMU



mchenryproj <mchenryproj@...>
 

Be aware that the audio bandwidth you see in the spectrum window is the norm and if you go lower than say 200 Hz or higher than say 2500 Hz you may not be found by everyone.  I would be in favor of maybe a second freq on 40m though. That's a crazy spot most of the day for me here in mid Ohio.

A lot of radios kick in a bandwidth filter when they go to either USB or a digital modes and may loose a part of the audio spectrum at the edges is another thing to consider.

I do know that if you attempt to TX very late in a given cycle the program will wait it out until the next TX cycle but maybe that TX timer should be a little tighter? That is, I see little reason for any partial transmissions past the longest delay of those doing EME. that you need a few seconds for but I see no reason for a partial transmissions at the halfway mark for example.  This would need to be by type as MS pounds it out multiple times so a partial TX sequence there makes some sense.

If I understand the software and procedures correctly that is.

I will say I have had decent success lately on 6m, 10m and 15m in FT8.  A local and I have run everything including 222 up to and including 1296.  We skipped 928 as there is almost nothing available for that band unless you go with pricey transverters.

Best of luck in the hunts and Happy Holidays to all.

Sean
KB8JNE
EN80qc (and beyond)

Spell checked by the NSA.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 10:06 AM, James Gill via groups.io
<jimvgill@...> wrote:



Jim Shorney
 

A station far away from you will be hearing a very different palette of signals than you are. That's just the way it is. On a busy band you will never find a frequency that is clear everywhere in the world. Just do the best you can.

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 22:31:39 -0800
"Jason B" <sydbowen@...> wrote:

Yes, I've had issues myself with FT-8 on 40 meters. I had a perfectly clear slot, was calling a DX station and suddenly I saw KB5VXX QRM...I immediately hit halt TX and went to look where I was transmitting, but still didn't see anyone in the slot I had chosen. Idk, but it was pretty crowded. First time I've ever been called out for QRM. I call myself trying to be careful. Oops.


Patrick Hung
 

This is for Jim - W4GMU:

To switch to the FT4 Mode, go to the Mode pull-down menu in WSJT-X, and select "FT4". WSJT-X will automatically select its default FT4 frequency (by band) for you, and you'll see a magenta-colored FT4 indicator light up at the bottom-left of the WSJT-X window.

I truly enjoy FT4, as I can easily work every station that decodes, at twice the speed. If I elect to respond to a call using exclusively TX2, it's even faster, at 3 cycles to RR73. 
--
73,
Patrick, W2TAR


chapron
 

De : "Markku SM5FLM"
A : main@WSJTX.groups.io
Envoyé: vendredi 18 décembre 2020 14:56
Objet : Re: [WSJTX] Crowded frequencies
 
Even if a slot is empty at your location, you don't know if the slot is empty in other places.

This is a problem when calling as station. On which frequency should you transmit? I have found it's best to use frequencies high >2500 or low <500, even if the more middle one's seems to be unused.

Hello
I use when I can an other way.
FT4 and FT8 are not QRM when the offset is some few Hz ( my offset is brtween 6 and 10 Hz)so no QRM and postly Freq is free in other side!The station will not choose a busy Freq to make his call.

This is possible when I see a station and wait him to end QSO (73) to call him. But if I want to reply to a CQ I have not the time to enter my new Freq!

So an idea is if it is possible to choose in the config some adjustable offset ( say + or - 0-20Hz) that will be add to our TX FREQ .

For me this new feater will be nice and very usefull. If you don't want it just enter 0Hz.

May be I am wrong and don't see a big dr(awback

F6EAO Jean-Michel


 
 


Reino Talarmo
 

Hi Jean-Michel,

This discussion has assumed that operators use ‘Hold Tx Freq’ selection and have chosen a ‘free’ transmit frequency for their potential transmissions including answering CQ’s.

If you want always answer with a small offset, say 10 Hz, you rig may have RIT or transmitter independent tuning facility and you could use it for that purpose already.

 

About the original title there is a nice feature built into wsjtx by which we could spread stations on a wider frequency range. We could use ‘directed’ CQ to ‘force’ an answer to your CQ to another spot. Just call on 20 m band e.g.  CQ 077 OH3MA in my case. That would direct answers into range 14.077 – 14.080 instead of normal 14.074 – 14.077. See User Guide 17.1. Overview fourth clause. I have not tested what I need to do to make it work, hi!

 

73, Reino OH3mA

 

This is possible when I see a station and wait him to end QSO (73) to call him. But if I want to reply to a CQ I have not the time to enter my new Freq!

So an idea is if it is possible to choose in the config some adjustable offset ( say + or - 0-20Hz) that will be add to our TX FREQ .


Gary - AG0N
 

On Dec 18, 2020, at 08:01, KD7YZ Bob <kd7yz@...> wrote:

literally, just a few or maybe even one Hz apart. Many times.
I’m not sure FT8 will, but JT65 worked quite well with two on the same frequency - not even one Hz apart.

For 20 and 40, jump on FT4 and try it. On very busy days, you’ll also find FT4 on 17m and I have seen a few on 80m (but never on 160 yet).

Gary — AG0N