Locked EU Contest Mode
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Paul Selwood G3YDY
Hi, Last night in the UK we had one of the contests in the MGMAC series of contests that uses the EU Contest mode.
I noted some changes in the operation of EU Contest mode. These changes made operating with non-contest stations such a problem that I gave up the 6M section of this contest. This being due to there being a E opening and most were not interested in the contest.
With previous editions of WSJT-X when in contests mode if the contest station had a reply from a non contest station the contest exchange would be given. This exchange then automatically sent the non-contest stations software to contest mode and the QSO would complete.
With the latest edition (2.2.2) the non-contest stations software does not switch to contest mode and gives a standard report no serial and 4 digit locator. The non-contest station does get a flag and just deletes it and hence an endless loop sets up. This happened to me several times. The result is the non-contest station gives up. Or what I did several times was to come out of contest mode purely as a means to complete the QSO. The fact that no serial number was obtained is within the rules, so that is Ok but the 4 digit locator is not. So I guess that the QSO will be lost at adjudication.
I this the intended method of operation, if so it is a retrograde step.
73
Paul
G3YDY
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Tony Collett
I confirm this behaviour.
I am using V2.2.2 and called a contest station in normal mode as I wasn't entering the contest. (Also I still don't know if he was EU or NA at initial CQ stage). I did get the pop up window and automatically clicked on it as I thought that is what I was supposed to do (have to admit message was so quick I didn't get time to read it before my transmission period). The message that I sent out though was still just R + strength, not the contest exchange I expected. I did complete the contest information as I manually put WSJT into EU contest mode and resent my Tx3 message correctly for the other station. As requested previously, can we not put a box on the main window to enable/disable the contest exchange without having to go through the menus please? There were no real problems using EU contest mode on 2m other than a few stations maybe not using the latest version so contact could start but then no longer decode each other. Cheers Tony G4NBS |
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Reino Talarmo
There is no more an implicit change to contest mode, only a nice reminder that you should go into contest mode, if you wish to complete the QSO properly in contest mode. The EU VHF Contest is now much better on contester’s point of view as each relevant message contains both , although hashed in some. So you really see, if the response were for you or somebody else sent on the same frequency a valid looking response to somebody else. I am no interested to use that magic button to go into normal mode in the middle of a contest as that QSO will not contain proper exchange in the contest. If the normal mode station is more important than the ongoing contest, I am prepared to make more than one click, hi. 73, Reino OH3mA |
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The EU contest mode worked very well with the new changes in 2.2.
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However, I did notice when calling CQ TEST xxxx on 6m - with the Es that was active a lot of non-contest stations never bothered - thankfully contest also on 2m so stuck to that band. I wonder if there is a way for the contester(s) and non-contester can co-exist? The rules do cover working a non-contest station with something such as 'If the sending stations does not send a serial number then log a zero.’ If the contester sends serial no/locator the other station responds, if in contest, responds correctly all ok. If not in contest then fill in as much as possible - log ‘0’ and 4 digit - carry on. If the auto sequencer could cope then all happy. No need for buttons on main menu - no moaning when a contest on. The pop-up reminder could exist to advise people why they are seeing different format. As long as the contest station send/responds correctly for the contest I can’t see any issues with adjudications. This would/could also apply to the other contest mode (I guess). I do appreciate the new changes with hashing this should solve lot of logging issues. Regards Tom -- 73
Tom GM8MJV (IO85)
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Tony Collett
Reino I understand what you are saying but unlike Paul I was originally not in contest mode and wished to change to it in order to give some points away.
I obviously misunderstood the intention of the pop up window. If it was just an invite to change mode then there is not time to read it or do it for that particular contact. I was pretty quick on how I did it but the partner had already sent his Tx4 RR73 message so we had to restart the QSO for him to get valid points. If you do not wish to add a button on the main window then why has the clicking on the pop up message also been dismissed? It is good that a "compatible" exchange is made rather than locking up the QSO but why not make it possible to change into contest mode easier? I have yet to find out what had happened if I was in NA mode though....... Cheers Tony G4NBS |
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Reino Talarmo
Tony, Paul wished that a non-contest station should be ’forced’ into contest mode instead of that info pop up window as in earlier versions. Non-contesters did not liked that functionality at all and instead only that informative pop up is now presented. As a result of that change it is proposed to have a button to switch between normal mode and current(?) contest mode. You Tony as a nice person you want to give points to contesters, but you should know which contest is on-going as in many a log should be submitted otherwise the contester will get a NIL. The current supported contest types except NA and EU VHF ones are easy to identify by their CQ FD, RU and WW. NA and EU VHF do require two messages from the run station for contest identification. I recommend that a non-contester first invokes a valid contest before giving points to contesters, at least I would like it and welcome everybody to join. Even better is send log in, if that is required. I have not tested, but Tab2 seems to offer a normal QSO possibility while you are in a contest mode. What then happens for logging could be an issue. See you on bands. 73, Reino OH3mA |
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Tony Collett
Hi again Reino
Thanks for your thoughts, I've been waiting in case there was any other input before responding.
I understand that not everybody wants to participate in contests and forcing someones program into contest mode just to satisfy the contester is not the best solution.
Forcing a permanent change is wrong (behaves a bit like a virus spreading the contest to the next station etc) but so is denying the ability to do so if I wish. The program as it stands at the moment does not satisfy either side and makes trying to operate in a contest on 6m almost impossible if the band is open for E's. That is why I ask why isn't it possible to give the option to easily enter contest mode even if it is for that QSO only.
As you correctly say I can not tell if you are in EU or NA contest mode until you have sent me a contest report. The pop up message then is at the wrong time in the QSO to enable a manual change to be made - it needs to give a yes/no option. The problem of logging is a superfluous argument. If I were to enter a contest then yes I will have read the rules and set my system up ready for it, either by using WSJT stand alone with its Cabrillo log or with N1MM. On the other hand if I just happen to casually turn on to find stations wanting a contest QSO that I wasn't aware was happening I wouldn't need the contest log and WSJT puts every QSO into the WSJT.ADI file whether its a "normal" or "contest" QSO anyway, it just doesn't care. Neither would my normal logger or LOTW/eQSL worry if it were contest or not. I had not considered Tab2 messages but I understand that its continuing availability is in doubt and I'm not sure if it could do what you propose?
My thoughts for change are Please can we have a button to enable to switch into and back out of contest mode available on the main window.
Please can the pop up message give the option to enter into contest mode before Tx3 is actually transmitted, even if it were for that QSO only.
Those two changes would enable the non contester to send the required contest information and get out of contest mode again afterwards without having to negotiate the menus. It would also give the contester the ability to switch out of contest mode quickly if his caller will not give a contest report (or to call some Dx not doing contest exchanges). Both parties happy maybe?? Also Please - Tx6 changed to CQ EU C/S LOC or CQ NA C/S LOC so others know what is required. I know in theory the two should never meet and be on different frequencies and continents but there is crossover and the use of FT modes in contesting will only increase. Thank you, 73 Tony G4NBS |
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Tony Collett
Apologies -after I hit the send button I realised my last sentance wasn't what I meant to say (late at night here!)
"Tx6 changed to CQ EU C/S LOC or CQ NA C/S LOC so others know what is required."
Meant to say
"I guess there might be limitations caused by available characters but is it possible for Tx6 to be coded into a truncated message so it uses the same number of bits as the existing CQ EU C/S LOC or CQ NA C/S LOC so others know what is required?"
- In other words could Tx6 be altered to send "CQ TEST EU C/S LOC" or "CQ TEST NA C/S LOC" since "CQ EU C/S LOC" or "CQ NA C/S LOC" are already used for general area calls? Thanks again, Tony |
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On 05/07/2020 07:22, Tony Collett via groups.io wrote:
Apologies -after I hit the send button I realised my last sentance wasn't what I meant to say (late at night here!)Hi Tony, the current message source encoding does not have the capability of adding what you propose. The "directed" CQ facility allows for either one to four upper case letters or three digits, the latter being used for auto-QSY as commonly used in MSK144 mode during MS QSOs. 73 Bill G4WJS. |
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Tony Collett
Thanks Bill - I guessed that might be the case.
Purely out of interest is CQ EU two upper case letters or is it classed as four? Hopefully something can be considered to help improve the usability in due course. 73 Tony G4NBS |
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On 05/07/2020 23:28, Tony Collett via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Bill - I guessed that might be the case.Hi Tony, the one to four uppercase characters are between the CQ and the call. I guess I should say zero to for uppercase characters. So these are all valid standard messages: CQ G4WJS CQ G4WJS IO91 CQ A G4WJS IO91 CQ AA G4WJS IO91 CQ AAA G4WJS IO91 CQ AAAA G4WJS IO91 CQ AAAA F/G4WJS Note no grid allowed on that last one. Also these: CQ 285 G4WJS IO91 CQ 287 F/G4WJS You can experiment with messages using the ft8code utility provided with WSJT-X. 73 Bill G4WJS. |
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On 05/07/2020 23:33, Bill Somerville
wrote:
On 05/07/2020 23:28, Tony Collett via groups.io wrote: Oops sorry, that last message is not a valid standard message,
nor is "CQ AAAA F/G4WJS". C:>\WSJT\wsjtx\bin\ft8code "CQ AAAA F/G4WJS"
Message Decoded Err i3.n3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. CQ AAAA F/G4WJS CQ AAAA F/G4W * 0.0 Free text
Source-encoded message, 77 bits:
00101100100100010001110100000111000111001111110000100101100000010010111000000
14-bit CRC:
11010001010011
83 Parity bits:
11100011011110001110001100101000010100000011101011100101100101111001000010011101100
Channel symbols (79 tones):
Sync Data Sync Data Sync
3140652 12110526014142751120056401606 3140652 17522414156035026256567103265 3140652
73 |
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Tony Collett
Cheers Bill
Forgotten about that utility - good to know that it even catches you out from time to time! Interesting that CQ 287 F/G4WJS falls foul, guess that could catch quite a few MS expeditions out...... 73 Tony |
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