locked Recovery from "Error in Sound Input" #AudioIssues


Zeev Stadler
 

I often see an "Error in Sound Input - An error opening the audio input device has occurred" dialog.
I also understand the cause is NOT in WSJT-X.
As far as I know, there are two ways to recover from this error:
  1. Exit WSJT-X and re-start it: This is the fail-safe way.
  2. Enter the configuration twice to change the input device back-and-forth: Does not always work and probably requires having multiple audio input devices.

Is there an easier fail-safe way to recover from such an error where you are less likely to loose an on-going connection?

If not, would it be possible for the developers of the program to add such a recovery action? Hopefully, it is possible to re-start the input and output audio connections as if the program was re-started?
For example, this action could be available as an option in the "Error in Sound Input" dialog, similar to the options in the "Rig Control Error" dialog.

73
Zeev 4X5ZS


Bill Somerville
 

On 21/01/2020 09:04, Zeev Stadler wrote:
I often see an "Error in Sound Input - An error opening the audio input device has occurred" dialog.
I also understand the cause is NOT in WSJT-X.
As far as I know, there are two ways to recover from this error:
  1. Exit WSJT-X and re-start it: This is the fail-safe way.
  2. Enter the configuration twice to change the input device back-and-forth: Does not always work and probably requires having multiple audio input devices.

Is there an easier fail-safe way to recover from such an error where you are less likely to loose an on-going connection?

If not, would it be possible for the developers of the program to add such a recovery action? Hopefully, it is possible to re-start the input and output audio connections as if the program was re-started?
For example, this action could be available as an option in the "Error in Sound Input" dialog, similar to the options in the "Rig Control Error" dialog.

73
Zeev 4X5ZS

Hi Zeev,

you should really be sorting out why your audio device(s) are disconnecting while being used. RFI on USB cables is a common cause.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Bob McGraw - K4TAX
 

When I was seeing this, I determined it was RF getting into the computer.  A ferrite  with a couple of turns of the cable between the radio and computer, located at the computer end, resolved the issue.

73

Bob, K4TAX


Kai-KE4PT
 

Hi Bob,
I've become more and more cautious about "a couple of turns of the cable between the radio and computer" solutions (use ferrites instead).
See attached lightning blurb.

Cheers
Kai


On 1/21/2020 11:46, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
When I was seeing this, I determined it was RF getting into the computer.  A ferrite  with a couple of turns of the cable between the radio and computer, located at the computer end, resolved the issue.

73

Bob, K4TAX




    


Jim Bacher - WB8VSU
 

Kai, he put a ferrite on the loop, which will prevent the common mode energy the lightning would cause. 

The key to not having damage due to lightning strikes is bonding and grounding per the USA National Electric Code (most homes in the USA aren't). Ward Silver, N0AX wrote a book called "Bonding and Grounding for the Amateur Radio Operator" which details what is needed to prevent lightning damage. What he details works. 

One can also find the book written by Polyphaser (no longer in print) in pdf form on the web, it is reasonable, but not as up-to-date as Ward's book. 

Jim Bacher, WB8VSU 
wb8vsu@... 
https://trc.guru

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:08 PM, Kai-KE4PT
<k.siwiak@...> wrote:


Jim Brown
 

On 1/21/2020 9:48 AM, Jim Bacher - WB8VSU wrote:
Ward Silver, N0AX wrote a book called "Bonding and Grounding for the Amateur Radio Operator" which details what is needed to prevent lightning damage. What he details works.
Yes. Ward and I worked extensively together on the book, and you'll find much of what's in that book in my Bonding tutorial. Bonding also minimizes many of the issues associated with RFI.

http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

73, Jim K9YC


Jacques Pecourt
 

Bob,
Since you have experience with ferrite cores on the computer cords, what is the suitable permeability you are using or recommended ?
Thank you.
73  Jacques   W2/F2YS

On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 11:47, Bob McGraw - K4TAX <rmcgraw@...> wrote:
When I was seeing this, I determined it was RF getting into the
computer.  A ferrite  with a couple of turns of the cable between the
radio and computer, located at the computer end, resolved the issue.

73

Bob, K4TAX




Kai-KE4PT
 

Hi Jim,
Yes, the ferrites will help; probably among the few solutions to radiated paths. Lightning-induced EMP is a sneaky radiated path, not a conductive / common mode path. A loop or coil of wire connected to NOTHING else can generate substantial voltages at its ends due to the magnetic field of a very nearby strike. The codes deal with the conductive paths. All that will also help with the radiated path, but will not eliminate it. Straight runs of wire will also be susceptible to the radial electric fields of the nearby strike.
Cheers,
Kai

On 1/21/2020 12:48, Jim Bacher - WB8VSU wrote:
Kai, he put a ferrite on the loop, which will prevent the common mode energy the lightning would cause. 

The key to not having damage due to lightning strikes is bonding and grounding per the USA National Electric Code (most homes in the USA aren't). Ward Silver, N0AX wrote a book called "Bonding and Grounding for the Amateur Radio Operator" which details what is needed to prevent lightning damage. What he details works. 

One can also find the book written by Polyphaser (no longer in print) in pdf form on the web, it is reasonable, but not as up-to-date as Ward's book. 

Jim Bacher, WB8VSU 
wb8vsu@... 
https://trc.guru

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:08 PM, Kai-KE4PT


    


Zeev Stadler
 

Hi Bill,

RFI may be a common cause, but not the only cause...

Recently, I had the waterfall freezing just 45 seconds after starting WSJT-X. Clicking the "Monitor" button once or twice showed the "Error in Sound Input" message. Needless to say, no transmission has been done during this time.

I believe an easy recovery from this error would be useful regardless of everyone's attempts to find and resolve the causes.

73
Zeev
4X5ZS


Bob McGraw - K4TAX
 

I am using some #31 material doughnuts which are 1.25"D x 0.25" H  with an ID of 0.625".  That 5/8" ID is just large enough for a USB connector to pass through allowing me to make a couple of turns of the cable through the doughnut.

Also, I've used some of the clamp-on types typically used for RG-8.  With these I can loop two turns through the ferrite.  As to the material, these are hamfest types, otherwise no clue.    The ones for RG-8X are not large enough to pass two turns.

73

Bob, K4TAX


Jim Brown
 

This is bad advice, based on wandering around in the dark. See http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf and
http://k9yc.com/RFI-Ham.pdf which are based on extensive, peer-reviewed research.

73, Jim K9YC

On 1/22/2020 7:08 AM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
I am using some #31 material doughnuts which are 1.25"D x 0.25" H  with an ID of 0.625".  That 5/8" ID is just large enough for a USB connector to pass through allowing me to make a couple of turns of the cable through the doughnut.
Also, I've used some of the clamp-on types typically used for RG-8. With these I can loop two turns through the ferrite.  As to the material, these are hamfest types, otherwise no clue.    The ones for RG-8X are not large enough to pass two turns.


Bob McGraw - K4TAX
 

My methods resolved all of the issues of concern while your peer reviewed methods did not.    I'll take 100% success over mostly failure methods observed.  Sorry Jim, I don't find your work helpful.

73

Bob, K4TAX


Zeev Stadler
 

I feel this thread was "hijacked" by a discussion on RFI. A discussion on RFI would be interesting to many HAMs, but please do it in a separate thread.

Let's get back to the proposal of simplifying the user interaction with WSJT-X when an "Error in Sound Input" occurs.
I definitely have occurrences of the error on my PC which are NOT related to RFI, as I wrote above.
What do the developers think about the proposal?

 

 


Bill Somerville
 

On 23/01/2020 07:03, Zeev Stadler wrote:
I feel this thread was "hijacked" by a discussion on RFI. A discussion on RFI would be interesting to many HAMs, but please do it in a separate thread.

Let's get back to the proposal of simplifying the user interaction with WSJT-X when an "Error in Sound Input" occurs.
I definitely have occurrences of the error on my PC which are NOT related to RFI, as I wrote above.
What do the developers think about the proposal?
Hi Zeev,

loosing connection with a sound card is not normal behaviour, particularly if it has not been physically disconnected. I do not think WSJT-X should have any mitigation for this, no more so than mitigation for the loss of any other hardware resource like the keyboard, screen, memory, disk, etc..

73
Bill
G4WJS.


Zeev Stadler
 

Hi Bill,

From a user's perspective you expect the program to recover from external interrupts. For example, you would expect your mouse to continue working as soon as possible after some malfunctioning program or OS overload caused it to freeze.

Unfortunately, Windows PCs tend to have temporary freezes more easily than Unix. A web page can cause the browser to tie up the processor, and WSJT-X would loose the connection to the sound card. Some external programs, like JTalertX and GridTracker, are triggered by WSJT-X activity and further increase the CPU load.

Please re-consider.


Jim Brown
 

On 1/22/2020 11:03 PM, Zeev Stadler wrote:
I feel this thread was "hijacked" by a discussion on RFI. A discussion on RFI would be interesting to many HAMs, but please do it in a separate thread.
Let's get back to the proposal of simplifying the user interaction with WSJT-X when an "Error in Sound Input" occurs.
The thread was not "hi-jacked." K4TAX observed that some such happenings can be caused by RFI, and I corrected some of his advice about how to address that issue.

73, Jim K9YC


Dick
 

FWIW.

In my case these "Error in Sound Input" errors on WSJT-X as well as JS8Call started December 18 2019.
Since then they have occurred 7 times.
Looking at the Windows Event log the problem is always related to
svchost.exe_Audiosrv, version: 10.0.18362.1
With these details:
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Faulting application path: C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
Faulting module path: c:\windows\system32\audiosrv.dll

I am an SWL so RFI in my case seems unlikely.

This is Windows 10 Version 1909 32 bits fully up to date.
I run SDR-Console configured with 3 receivers feeding 2 instances of WSJT-X and 1 instance of JS8Call using a VAC.
This runs 24/7.
When the problem occurs all these 3 programs suffer from it and the only solution I found to be working is to reboot.

So IMHO this is a OS software problem.
The first time the problem occurred was 8 days after (KB4532441) failed to install.
Each time a problem report is automatically sent to MS but so far no fix.
The report contains amongst a lot of other info this sentence: "Windows will notify you if a solution is available."
So now we wait :-)

73, Dick PA-2015


Kai-KE4PT
 

Hi Bob,
I recommend that you flatten the couple of turns of cable by bunching them up at the center, so that it does not act like a multiturn loop antenna, and of course add ferrites at each end. That will cure not only radiated RFI from your antenna, but also lightning-induced EMP.
Cheers,
Kai

On 1/21/2020 11:46, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
When I was seeing this, I determined it was RF getting into the computer.  A ferrite  with a couple of turns of the cable between the radio and computer, located at the computer end, resolved the issue.

73

Bob, K4TAX




    


Bill Somerville
 

On 25/01/2020 13:55, Dick wrote:
FWIW.

In my case these "Error in Sound Input" errors on WSJT-X as well as JS8Call started December 18 2019.
Since then they have occurred 7 times.
Looking at the Windows Event log the problem is always related to
svchost.exe_Audiosrv, version: 10.0.18362.1
With these details:
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Faulting application path: C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
Faulting module path: c:\windows\system32\audiosrv.dll

I am an SWL so RFI in my case seems unlikely.

This is Windows 10 Version 1909 32 bits fully up to date.
I run SDR-Console configured with 3 receivers feeding 2 instances of WSJT-X and 1 instance of JS8Call using a VAC.
This runs 24/7.
When the problem occurs all these 3 programs suffer from it and the only solution I found to be working is to reboot.

So IMHO this is a OS software problem.
The first time the problem occurred was 8 days after (KB4532441) failed to install.
Each time a problem report is automatically sent to MS but so far no fix.
The report contains amongst a lot of other info this sentence: "Windows will notify you if a solution is available."
So now we wait:-)
73, Dick PA-2015
Hi Dick,

thanks for reporting your carefully gathered facts. Indeed a memory access violation (Exception code: 0xc0000005) is a programming error and the offending code is an MS system service, so in this case the fault lies with Microsoft.

73
Bill
G4WJS.