Date
1 - 19 of 19
Locked Time sync issues
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We have a club station that some members want to run FT8 on. There is a laptop there for use, but no Internet access. Of course, the clock is always off. We can use a cellphone for a hotspot to give Internet access, but forcing the clock to sync requires admin privileges. I know the Meinberg and Dimension 4 apps have been mentioned. I'm sure they need admin rights to install, but do they need admin rights to actually run and sync the clock? If one of them will work, we can probably get it installed, then the user can use his smartphone hotspot to keep the laptop on time while they are using it.
Thanks, Michael WA7SKG |
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On 09/12/2019 03:06, Michael WA7SKG wrote:
We have a club station that some members want to run FT8 on. There is a laptop there for use, but no Internet access. Of course, the clock is always off. We can use a cellphone for a hotspot to give Internet access, but forcing the clock to sync requires admin privileges. I know the Meinberg and Dimension 4 apps have been mentioned. I'm sure they need admin rights to install, but do they need admin rights to actually run and sync the clock? If one of them will work, we can probably get it installed, then the user can use his smartphone hotspot to keep the laptop on time while they are using it.Hi Michael, I don't know about Dimension4, but the Meinberg NTP Client installs a service to run ntpd and that has the necessary rights to adjust the system clock. Other than a UAC pop up when installing there is no need for any elevated rights for the normal day to day user. 73 Bill G4WJS. |
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martin.svaco@...
Without internet access you may try USB GPS
receiver (less than US$ 10) and free software.
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On eBay search for ''VK-172 GMOUSE USB GPS Receiver'' For software google ''BktTimeSync''. For USB GPS receiver you may need GPS antenna. Search eBay for ''GPS Antenna Amplifier Receiver Repeater for Android Phone Car navigation Tool'' 73 Martin 9A2JK On 9.12.2019. 4:06, Michael WA7SKG
wrote:
We have a club station that some members want to run FT8 on. There is a laptop there for use, but no Internet access. Of course, the clock is always off. We can use a cellphone for a hotspot to give Internet access, but forcing the clock to sync requires admin privileges. I know the Meinberg and Dimension 4 apps have been mentioned. I'm sure they need admin rights to install, but do they need admin rights to actually run and sync the clock? If one of them will work, we can probably get it installed, then the user can use his smartphone hotspot to keep the laptop on time while they are using it. |
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Michael,
Look at Net Time, http://www.timesynctool.com/ and it does not require admin to use as it installs as a service. Sure, on systems set up for admin control such as the EOC it will need admin to install but will run as stated as a service after installation. Using a phone for a hot spot works. The software is much maligned by some, but I have found it to be reliable and accurate. |
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We thought about that. Problem is, the shack is in the middle of the first floor of a three story building. We would have to run a line to the roof for the GPS to work. Huge task.
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Michael WA7SKG martin.svaco@... wrote on 12/9/19 4:30 AM: Without internet access you may try USB GPS receiver (less than US$ 10) and free software. |
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Jim Bacher - WB8VSU
If the building has wifi, put a Raspberry Pi at roof level with a GPS unit and a wifi dongle. Let it be a ntp server for the network.
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Jim Bacher, WB8VSU wb8vsu@... https://trc.guru
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K8BL BOB LIDDY <k8bl@...>
Michael, et al:
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We have a Club Station that has no Internet access and we also do Special Events and Field Day from locations with no Internet access. Some of our Members and I have watches that are sync'ed to WWVB and are exact and equally as good as any Internet Time Signal. All we do is bring up the clock setting feature on our laptop and hit Enter at the precise time and we're good to go. Easy-peasy! WSJT/FT8 is not so exact that you need to worry. As long as you are within 2 seconds you'll have no problem. Just watch the DT listing on the left side of your screen of the decoded Stations and if it looks like too many of them have a DT of 2 seconds or more, you'll need to re-sync your laptop with a Radio-syn'd watch or with WWV over the air. It works very well and no need to set up any fancy GPS gizmo when you're in the hinterlands. Of course, the "experts" reading this will spend hours flaming this message and tell me how I am full of "stuff", but we've done this numerous times over the past two years and have had no problems at all. Sometimes simple and common sense solutions work almost as well as thousands of dollars of "hi-tech" boxes. GL/73, Bob K8BL On Monday, December 9, 2019, 12:15:33 PM EST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:
We thought about that. Problem is, the shack is in the middle of the first floor of a three story building. We would have to run a line to the roof for the GPS to work. Huge task. Michael WA7SKG martin.svaco@... wrote on 12/9/19 4:30 AM: Without internet access you may try USB GPS receiver (less than US$ 10)-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#4855): https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/message/4855 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/67786070/816666 -=-=- Moderated by Andy K3UK and Roger G4HZA -=-=- Group Owner: WSJTX+owner@groups.io Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/leave/6192957/2082928348/xyzzy [k8bl@...] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
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Don--AE4DW
They should run fine without admin privs.
Also take a look at this app, I tried Dim 4 for awhile, and then switched to this one, I like its simplicity: http://www.timesynctool.com/ |
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martin.svaco@...
Michael,
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I suppose that the shack has a window. Put GPS antenna on the window inside the shack and GPS will work. I have tested that. 73 Martin On 9.12.2019. 18:15, Michael WA7SKG
wrote:
We thought about that. Problem is, the shack is in the middle of the first floor of a three story building. We would have to run a line to the roof for the GPS to work. Huge task. |
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No, "in the middle" means in the middle, as in other rooms all around, as in no windows and many feet of walls and ultimately sealed steel reinforced concrete walls to the outside.
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Michael WA7SKG martin.svaco@... wrote on 12/9/19 12:25 PM: Michael, |
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Apparently you missed the part about changing time on a Windows machine requires admin rights, which we do not have. We can connect to the network if someone has a smartphone they can set up as a hotspot, but going into the Windoze time settings and trying to "sync now" pops up a box asking for admin password. While on the one hand, I can appreciate the need for admin rights to install software, make significant changes, etc. but to set the clock? Windoze can be so annoying.
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Michael WA7SKG K8BL BOB LIDDY wrote on 12/9/19 9:49 AM: Michael, et al: |
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K8BL BOB LIDDY <k8bl@...>
Michael,
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I've done this numerous times on numerous computers and never got involved with Admin Rights. Those rights usually are required with computers that are part of a network. Click on the time area in the bottom right. Click on "date and time settings". On the Date and Time tab, click on "Change date and time...". In the little window that has the incrementing time, enter an upcoming exact time you can get from an accurate source such as WWV or a radio-controlled WWVB watch. At the moment that time you entered appears, hit OK. You'll now be within a second of the actual exact time. Easy-peasy. There are other ways to do it that I can tell you about, but this has always worked for our Members. GL/73, Bob K8BL On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:13:15 AM EST, Michael WA7SKG < wa7skg@...> wrote:
Apparently you missed the part about changing time on a Windows machine requires admin rights, which we do not have. We can connect to the network if someone has a smartphone they can set up as a hotspot, but going into the Windoze time settings and trying to "sync now" pops up a box asking for admin password. While on the one hand, I can appreciate the need for admin rights to install software, make significant changes, etc. but to set the clock? Windoze can be so annoying. Michael WA7SKG K8BL BOB LIDDY wrote on 12/9/19 9:49 AM: Michael, et al:-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#4880): https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/message/4880 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/67786070/816666 -=-=- Moderated by Andy K3UK and Roger G4HZA -=-=- Group Owner: WSJTX+owner@groups.io Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/leave/6192957/2082928348/xyzzy [k8bl@...] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
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I place my cell phone next to the computer screen.
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Run a UTC time app on the phone. Do the above procedure and hit the OK button on the second. It only has to be within 2.5 seconds... Bernard, KC9SGV Sent from my iPad On Dec 10, 2019, at 10:47 AM, K8BL BOB LIDDY <k8bl@...> wrote: |
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K8BL BOB LIDDY <k8bl@...>
Bernard.... Very clever. Thanks for sharing. ...73, Bob K8BL
On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 11:59:40 AM EST, KC9SGV <kc9sgv@...> wrote:
I place my cell phone next to the computer screen. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-Run a UTC time app on the phone. Do the above procedure and hit the OK button on the second. It only has to be within 2.5 seconds... Bernard, KC9SGV Sent from my iPad > On Dec 10, 2019, at 10:47 AM, K8BL BOB LIDDY <k8bl@...> wrote: > > Michael, > > I've done this numerous times on numerous computers and > never got involved with Admin Rights. Those rights usually > are required with computers that are part of a network. > > Click on the time area in the bottom right. Click on "date and > time settings". On the Date and Time tab, click on "Change date > and time...". In the little window that has the incrementing time, > enter an upcoming exact time you can get from an accurate source > such as WWV or a radio-controlled WWVB watch. At the moment > that time you entered appears, hit OK. You'll now be within a second > of the actual exact time. Easy-peasy. > > There are other ways to do it that I can tell you about, but this has > always worked for our Members. > > GL/73, Bob K8BL > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 10, 2019, 10:13:15 AM EST, Michael WA7SKG < wa7skg@...> wrote: > > > > > > Apparently you missed the part about changing time on a Windows machine > requires admin rights, which we do not have. We can connect to the > network if someone has a smartphone they can set up as a hotspot, but > going into the Windoze time settings and trying to "sync now" pops up a > box asking for admin password. While on the one hand, I can appreciate > the need for admin rights to install software, make significant changes, > etc. but to set the clock? Windoze can be so annoying. > > Michael WA7SKG > > K8BL BOB LIDDY wrote on 12/9/19 9:49 AM: >> Michael, et al: >> >> We have a Club Station that has no Internet access and we >> also do Special Events and Field Day from locations with >> no Internet access. Some of our Members and I have watches >> that are sync'ed to WWVB and are exact and equally as good >> as any Internet Time Signal. All we do is bring up the clock >> setting feature on our laptop and hit Enter at the precise time >> and we're good to go. Easy-peasy! WSJT/FT8 is not so exact >> that you need to worry. As long as you are within 2 seconds >> you'll have no problem. Just watch the DT listing on the left >> side of your screen of the decoded Stations and if it looks like >> too many of them have a DT of 2 seconds or more, you'll need >> to re-sync your laptop with a Radio-syn'd watch or with WWV >> over the air. It works very well and no need to set up any fancy >> GPS gizmo when you're in the hinterlands. >> >> Of course, the "experts" reading this will spend hours flaming >> this message and tell me how I am full of "stuff", but we've done >> this numerous times over the past two years and have had no >> problems at all. Sometimes simple and common sense solutions >> work almost as well as thousands of dollars of "hi-tech" boxes. >> >> GL/73, Bob K8BL >> >> On Monday, December 9, 2019, 12:15:33 PM EST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote: >> >> We thought about that. Problem is, the shack is in the middle of the >> first floor of a three story building. We would have to run a line to >> the roof for the GPS to work. Huge task. >> >> Michael WA7SKG >> >> >> martin.svaco@... wrote on 12/9/19 4:30 AM: >>> Without internet access you may try USB GPS receiver (less than US$ 10) >>> and free software. >>> On eBay search for ''VK-172 GMOUSE USB GPS Receiver'' >>> >>> For software google ''BktTimeSync''. >>> >>> For USB GPS receiver you may need GPS antenna. >>> Search eBay for ''GPS Antenna Amplifier Receiver Repeater for Android >>> Phone Car navigation Tool'' >>> >>> 73 >>> Martin 9A2JK >>> >>>> On 9.12.2019. 4:06, Michael WA7SKG wrote: >>>> We have a club station that some members want to run FT8 on. There is >>>> a laptop there for use, but no Internet access. Of course, the clock >>>> is always off. We can use a cellphone for a hotspot to give Internet >>>> access, but forcing the clock to sync requires admin privileges. I >>>> know the Meinberg and Dimension 4 apps have been mentioned. I'm sure >>>> they need admin rights to install, but do they need admin rights to >>>> actually run and sync the clock? If one of them will work, we can >>>> probably get it installed, then the user can use his smartphone >>>> hotspot to keep the laptop on time while they are using it. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Michael WA7SKG > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. > > View/Reply Online (#4880): https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/message/4880 > > Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/67786070/816666 > -=-=- > Moderated by Andy K3UK and Roger G4HZA > -=-=- > Group Owner: WSJTX+owner@groups.io > Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/leave/6192957/2082928348/xyzzy [k8bl@...] > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. > > View/Reply Online (#4882): https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/message/4882 > Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/67786070/189090 > -=-=- > Moderated by Andy K3UK and Roger G4HZA > -=-=- > Group Owner: WSJTX+owner@groups.io > Unsubscribe: ] > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#4883): https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/message/4883 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/67786070/816666 -=-=- Moderated by Andy K3UK and Roger G4HZA -=-=- Group Owner: WSJTX+owner@groups.io Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/WSJTX/leave/6192957/2082928348/xyzzy [k8bl@...] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- |
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Well, I appreciate that works for you. In our case, it does not. These computers are tightly controlled. When you click on the clock and try to change the time, we get a pop-up box that asks for the admin password. It took us a month just to get the IT person to finally agree and install WSJT-X so we could use FT8 in the first place.
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I've only been using Windows since 1989 or so when it first came out. I am a bit familiar with how to change the time. It's just annoying all the new 'security' measures in place now greatly limiting what a non-privileged user can do. Sadly, it does not seem to be configurable as to what does and does not require admin rights. You can connect to a network, but you cannot change the time. Michael WA7SKG K8BL BOB LIDDY wrote on 12/10/19 8:47 AM: Michael, |
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Ham computers so tightly controlled??? They are cheap. Get your own and set it up the way you wish. By the way, the admin could give that program admin rights without having to open it up for all else. Something is crazy here.
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Outlook Laptop Gil W0MN Hierro candente, batir de repente 44.08226N 92.51265W EN34rb -----Original Message-----
From: WSJTX@groups.io <WSJTX@groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael WA7SKG Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 12:47 To: Bob Liddy (K8BL) <k8bl@...>; WSJTX@groups.io Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Time sync issues Well, I appreciate that works for you. In our case, it does not. These computers are tightly controlled. When you click on the clock and try to change the time, we get a pop-up box that asks for the admin password. It took us a month just to get the IT person to finally agree and install WSJT-X so we could use FT8 in the first place. I've only been using Windows since 1989 or so when it first came out. I am a bit familiar with how to change the time. It's just annoying all the new 'security' measures in place now greatly limiting what a non-privileged user can do. Sadly, it does not seem to be configurable as to what does and does not require admin rights. You can connect to a network, but you cannot change the time. Michael WA7SKG K8BL BOB LIDDY wrote on 12/10/19 8:47 AM: Michael, -- W0MN EN34rb 44.08226 N 92.51265 W Hierro candente, batir de repente HP Laptop |
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Have you told your IT guy that you need more accurate times to meet your needs. He/She is a techie, and perhaps would like to be known to provide an accurate network, and install Meinberg NTP for the entire network which you indicated you can connect to? Herb WB8ASI
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Nc8q-mesh@gelm.net <nc8q-mesh@...>
On 12/8/19 10:06 PM, Michael WA7SKG
wrote:
We have a club station that some members want to run FT8 on. There is a laptop there for use, but no Internet access. Of course, the clock is always off. We can use a cellphone for a hotspot to give Internet access, but forcing the clock to sync requires admin privileges. I know the Meinberg and Dimension 4 apps have been mentioned. I'm sure they need admin rights to install, but do they need admin rights to actually run and sync the clock? If one of them will work, we can probably get it installed, then the user can use his smartphone hotspot to keep the laptop on time while they are using it."We have a club station that some members want to run FT8 on. There is a laptop there for use, but no Internet access These computers are tightly controlled. It took us a month just to get the IT person to finally agree and install WSJT-X so we could use FT8 in the first place." Michael: Bring your own laptop? :-| Chuck |
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Jim Bacher - WB8VSU
Michael, normal Windows 10 does not require admin privileges to set time and date. So someone has locked it down.
I am guessing the building you are in has IT folks that have locked down that ability on the PC you are using. Depending on how locked down it is, the lock down will get in the way of other options to resolve the time issue. Your question about admin privileges for Meinberg. It's only needed for install. Once installed its not needed as it runs as a service at boot. If your PC does not have Internet access then Apps like Meinberg won't solve the problem anyway. The apps need to access NTP servers either local or on the Internet to get accurate time. I suspect the building IT folks likely have Windows Servers. Windows servers have NTP abilities and just need to be pointed to good NTP servers (not Microsoft's servers) and have the service turned on. Once they have correct time, their server should drive an accurate time to all networked PCs including yours. There are reasons beyond wsjt for turning on NTP and accurate time sync on the local network. Jim Bacher, WB8VSU wb8vsu@... https://trc.guru |
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