Date   

locked Re: 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

Ria, N2RJ
 

I’m not aware of any complaints by the NTIA against radio amateurs for using FT8 on 60m.

The volunteer monitor program nor the FCC are sending out violation notices. I keep abreast of enforcement issues and I’ve asked numerous departments at ARRL. This isn’t a concern with anyone there.

ARRL doesn’t have any awards for 60m contacts. So anyone doing 60m contacts there does it for their own enjoyment.

73
Ria, N2RJ 


locked Re: 60 meters: Operating - FT8

Kai-KE4PT
 

You monitor the channel in upper SSB mode.
Cheers
Kai, KE4PT

On 2/20/2020 19:15, K8BL BOB LIDDY wrote:
I'm considering operating FT8 on 60M this evening.

How will Govt Users inform me of their planned usage
so that I can go QRT?

I hope my 10W to an end-fed LW at 20 Ft. doesn't cause
too much interference.

de  Bob  K8BL/5







On Thursday, February 20, 2020, 04:02:30 PM CST, Bonnie KQ6XA <bonniekq6xa@...> wrote: 





The channel at 5357 kHz USB has constant FT8 transmissions, 24/7/365, worldwide. 
Currently, 5357-FT8 is not being shared properly by Secondary hams with Primary users. 

Solution: The developers of FT8 can add a lockout feature in FT8 for 1 minute of silence at the top of every 5 minutes, when tuned to 5 MHz. 
This would provide a viable time window for Primary users to communicate. 
It also would avoid the Amateur Radio Service losing its valuable Secondary allocation on 60 meters. 

If the developers of FT8 don't act soon:

    1. Primary users won't allow hams to continuously take over their allocation much longer. 
    2. Some Primary user will probably put multi-kilowatts on it to simply take their allocation back. (We can see this starting to happen already with the HF radars)
    3. Primary users will oppose Amateur Service efforts at ITU conferences to increase the worldwide power allocation from 15 Watts to 100 Watts. 
    4. Governments which not approve allowing their hams to use 60 meters, or will drastically curtail their use of it (see Australia)
5357 is the ONLY international Amateur Radio Service channel on 60 meters.
Be nice to it. 

-Bonnie KQ6XA




    


locked Re: 1 minute Re: 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

Kai-KE4PT
 

This is another opportunity to use Bill's quote:
"...no one should be mindlessly blasting through QSOs without adding in their common sense and operating skill." -Bill Sommerville, G4WJS, [WSJT-X reflector, 2018/09/25/14:12 UTC]."

Let's keep the burden of complying with the regulations squarely where it belongs: on the operator, not on the developers!

That said, I'll add Bonnie's own quote to my list (thanks Bonnie):
"5357 is the ONLY international Amateur Radio Service channel on 60 meters.
Be nice to it. -Bonnie KQ6XA"

With kindest regards,
Kai Siwiak, KE4PT

On 2/20/2020 17:02, Bonnie KQ6XA wrote:
Solution: The developers of FT8 can add a lockout feature in FT8 for 1 minute of silence at the top of every 5 minutes, when tuned to 5 MHz.


locked Instant improvement #WSJTX_config

Arnold Lausevich <nk9o@...>
 

Was having waterfall and decode issues that I just coped with since day one.  Waterfall was erratic to say the least with many missed decode sequences.  I finally removed my VPN and Malwarbytes and wallah!!!!

Will just connect briefly to the internet to do a time sync daily and keep this computer dedicated for ham use only.


locked Re: 1 minute Re: 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

Butch Washer
 

Hi all,

IMHO, I think Seannon is on the right track. 

I personally have never keyed a mic on 60m yet because I have not found a need. 

But I think the root thought that MAY have been behind the 60m allocation may have either never been printed or said, but was the reason. Who knows...

That is to give Amateur Radio operators a common set of frequency channels with government groups to communicate back and forth, directly during an emergency without operating split mode. 

Copied from Seannon below
 The NTIA expressed concern about possible interference and requested that amateurs limit digital operating to PSK31 and PACTOR III only.”

It makes sense that it has been mentioned specifically that voice and limited PSK31 and PACTOR III be used, because those would be the modes that would be used during an emergency situation. These would also allow the primary users to interrupt secondary users conversations for primary use of their channels. 

I would suspect that the channels are hard programmed into their radios that probably do not have a VFO to allow them to move to an off center conversation. 

Please consider these thought going forward. Remember these are government channels and we are allowed to share use, probably to allow us to get our stations ready to be used during an emergency. 

I don’t like to write long emails, but I felt that more logical thinking might help this conversation some. 

I apologize in advance if I wrinkle any hairs with this line of thought. 

Best Regards to All,

Butch N5SMQ 





On Feb 20, 2020, at 7:44 PM, Seannon Baker (AG0NY) <KD4IYI@...> wrote:


Bonnie, with the current rules for the united states hams, I really don't think we should be doing FT8 "Business as usual" on the 60 meter band at all! the rules state that it is 1. CHANNELIZED, with voice allowed on USB 1500hz down from the channel's center frequency, and data ONLY CENTERED ON THE CENTER FREQUENCY. 2. ONLY ONE STATION CAN TRANSMIT AT A TIME 3. WE ARE NOT PRIMARY USERS ON THIS BAND.

So, while ALE, SELCAL, and modes like OLIVIA are digital and conversational, FT8 is more transactional, I.E. call, signal report, location and move on to the next contact... and depends on the varying of the AF within the passband, this is NOT allowed per the current rules, it's the center frequency or nothing, not the center frequency shifted 500 hz, 746 hz etc, and the way FT8 utilizes multiple AF to allow transmitting of multiple stations at the same time without "walking on the other stations" this is incompatible with the rules stating only one station may transmit at a time

to make this a bit more visual, check the 60 meter section of the band chart, it pretty much says that FT8 and FT4 aren't compatible with those rules without mentioning them.

we really need to take care of the bands we have, they are hard to get and can easily be taken away, this is one where we are a secondary user, which is even more important that we use our strengths and common sense

Digital Operation
Our expanded privileges on 60 meters were the result of collaboration between the FCC and the NTIA – the National Telecommunications and Information Administration, the agency that manages and coordinates telecommunications activities among US government departments, the primary users of the band. The NTIA expressed concern about possible interference and requested that amateurs limit digital operating to PSK31 and PACTOR III only.

It is certainly possible to interpret the FCC Report and Order somewhat broadly as it concerns digital operating on the band, but be careful not to read too much into the text.Therefore, as a practical matter it appears that any J2D data emission is to be permitted up to a bandwidth of 2.8 kHz, provided that care is exercised to limit the length of transmissions

With an eye to the potential for expanded 60 meter privileges in the future, the ARRL believes it is critical to cooperate fully with the NTIA. Therefore, the ARRL asks all amateurs to restrict 60-meter digital operations to PSK31 or PACTOR III.

With PSK31 you must operate on the following channel center frequencies:
Channel 1: 5332.0 kHz
Channel 2: 5348.0 kHz
Channel 3: 5358.5 kHz
Channel 4: 5373.0 kHz
Channel 5: 5405.0 kHz

The easiest way to achieve this is to place your transceiver in the USB mode and tune to one of the suppressed carrier channel frequencies shown in Table 1.

With your PSK31 software display configured to indicate audio frequencies, click your mouse cursor at the 1500 Hz mark (see below). With your radio in the USB mode, this marker indicates the center of the channel and it is the frequency on which you should be transmitting.

PACTOR III operation on 60 meters is straightforward. With your transceiver in the USB mode, tune to one of the suppressed carrier channel frequencies shown in Table 1. Note that only live keyboard-to-keyboard operation of PACTOR III is allowed. Unattended automatic operation is not permitted.

Seannon, AG0NY

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 4:02 PM Bonnie KQ6XA <bonniekq6xa@...> wrote:
The channel at 5357 kHz USB has constant FT8 transmissions, 24/7/365, worldwide. 
Currently, 5357-FT8 is not being shared properly by Secondary hams with Primary users. 

Solution: The developers of FT8 can add a lockout feature in FT8 for 1 minute of silence at the top of every 5 minutes, when tuned to 5 MHz. 
This would provide a viable time window for Primary users to communicate. 
It also would avoid the Amateur Radio Service losing its valuable Secondary allocation on 60 meters.

If the developers of FT8 don't act soon:
  1. Primary users won't allow hams to continuously take over their allocation much longer. 
  2. Some Primary user will probably put multi-kilowatts on it to simply take their allocation back. (We can see this starting to happen already with the HF radars)
  3. Primary users will oppose Amateur Service efforts at ITU conferences to increase the worldwide power allocation from 15 Watts to 100 Watts. 
  4. Governments which not approve allowing their hams to use 60 meters, or will drastically curtail their use of it (see Australia)
5357 is the ONLY international Amateur Radio Service channel on 60 meters.
Be nice to it. 

-Bonnie KQ6XA



--
“It is a simple feat of scientific electrical engineering — only expensive — blind, faint-hearted, doubting world.”

Nikola Tesla




locked Re: Computer recommendations

John
 

I buy as close to the present leading edge of computer tech that I can afford at
the time. My theory is that by the time my "new" computer is obsolete, I'll have
had five to eight maybe even ten years of use out of it. Four years ago I bought
an AMD 9590 CPU based computer, it does all I ask and more, but I don't ask it
to do much other than the usual assortment of ham radio software, play music or
video and I like to play World of Warships as well, does all I ask of it without
any grief except for having to clean out the dust twice a year.

As long as your computer can handle the load that you impose upon it, it is
fine. The only major reason that I can think of to replace the computer is
because the OS is out dated thus the new versions of software will not run on
the present machine.

Win 10 I would guess is getting closer to the obsolete point, I wonder if MS
plans to have their new OS as a subscription and one pays a monthly fee to have
use of it, if so, I can see a huge move to Linux.

John
VE3KKQ

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jim Brown <k9yc@...>
Date: February 21, 2020 at 12:09 AM


On 2/20/2020 4:08 PM, Jeff Moore wrote:
You can never have TOO MUCH computing power!
But we CAN often not have enough money to buy what others convince us
that we need. I've done lots of very sophisticated acoustic modeling,
lots of engineering applications, Autocad models, often with multiple
Office-type apps open with multiple linked spreadsheets and documents,
along with browsers with multiple windows open at the same time. I've
never had more than 16GB RAM or a drive larger than 500GB. And years
ago, I did a lot of that stuff on FAR less capable laptops.

I DON'T do fancy graphics or gaming, I don't edit video and do rather
limited audio editing. And I don't store music or video on hard drives.

Optical and SS drives are one of those commodities that get cheaper
every year. It's easy to buy a bigger drive to replace one that's too
small, or to add an external one at a USB port.

My advice is don't let someone who's more serious than you are about
things like this convince you spend more than have on more than you need!

73, Jim K9YC



locked Re: Configuration cloning/copying version 2.1.2 vs 2.1.0

Karza
 

OM Esa,

On 21.2.2020 14.06, Esa Nieminen wrote:
<snip>
Now I am  trying to do the same  using wsjtx version 2.1.2 and KDE.
..please have a look at https://www.physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-2.1.2.html
chapter 16. Frequently Asked Questions:

I am running WSJT-X on Linux using a KDE desktop. Why does Menu→Configurations misbehave?

The KDE development team have added code to Qt that tries to automatically add shortcut accelerator keys to all buttons including pop up menu buttons, this interferes with operation of the application (many other Qt applications have similar issues with KDE). Until this is fixed by the KDE team you must disable this misfeature. Edit the file ~/.config/kdeglobals and add a section containing the following:

[Development]
AutoCheckAccelerators=false

See https://stackoverflow.com/a/32711483 and https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=337491 for more details.


Perhaps this is your problem...

73's de Kari, oh2gqc


locked Configuration cloning/copying version 2.1.2 vs 2.1.0

Esa Nieminen
 

Hi.
I wonder what I am doing wrong because I cannot clone configuration when using wsjtx version 2.1.2 and KDE
similarily when using wsjtx version 2.1.0 and Ubuntu 18.0.4.
I made the first configuration by setting general, rig data and mode FT8 on 40m. Then I tested it and it was OK.
I cloned it and  switched to it and it was OK. I changed mode to FT4 on 40m and it was OK., renamed the first and switched and it is OK.

Now I am  trying to do the same  using wsjtx version 2.1.2 and KDE.
I did as before but both clone and copy saved nothing.
I tried to delete extra configurations but they pop up every time when restarting the progam.
What is wrong or what am I doing wrong?

The last active configuration is OK when restarting the program.
--
73 de OH2AWG, Esa N


locked Computer needed

Randy Davenport
 

I'm looking for any surplus laptop or tablet running Windows 10.  I'm disabled and low income. Can someone please help me out with this?
Randy ka4nma

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 12:09 AM Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:
On 2/20/2020 4:08 PM, Jeff Moore wrote:
> You can never have TOO MUCH computing power!

But we CAN often not have enough money to buy what others convince us
that we need. I've done lots of very sophisticated acoustic modeling,
lots of engineering applications, Autocad models, often with multiple
Office-type apps open with multiple linked spreadsheets and documents,
along with browsers with multiple windows open at the same time. I've
never had more than 16GB RAM or a drive larger than 500GB. And years
ago, I did a lot of that stuff on FAR less capable laptops.

I DON'T do fancy graphics or gaming, I don't edit video and do rather
limited audio editing. And I don't store music or video on hard drives.

Optical and SS drives are one of those commodities that get cheaper
every year. It's easy to buy a bigger drive to replace one that's too
small, or to add an external one at a USB port.

My advice is don't let someone who's more serious than you are about
things like this convince you spend more than have on more than you need!

73, Jim K9YC




locked Re: frequencies for 160 - 6m?

Nc8q-mesh@gelm.net
 

On 2/21/20 6:07 AM, Martin G0HDB wrote:
With regard to complying with the rule that says that all digital signals must be centred within the channel at 5358.5kHz, doesn't this mean that in order to allow for the 50Hz bandwidth of an FT8 signal the Tx offset should be set to 1475Hz above a dial frequency of 5357.0kHz rather than 1500Hz?  If the 50Hz-wide FT8 signal starts at 1500Hz above 5357.0kHz then it won't be correctly centred within the channel.
AFAIK, with a Tx frequency set at 1500, frequencies transmitted would be
1500.0, 1506.25, 1512.5, 1518.75, 1525.0, 1531.25, 1527.5, 1543.75 Hz.
So, to be centered  on 5357.0, a selected Tx could be 1478 and this would
be within 0.125 Hz of center.

Chuck


locked Re: frequencies for 160 - 6m?

Martin G0HDB
 

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 04:22 PM, K8BL BOB LIDDY wrote:
Bruce,

Well done! Your research and explanation makes perfect
sense when one understands exactly how FT8 works.

I'll plan to stay above 1500 Hz on FT8 with my VFO set
at 5.357 MHz in the future.
I have to confess to being more than somewhat bemused by all the kerfuffle that seems to be afflicting USA amateurs' use of FT8 on 60m, but it does appear that you're having to comply with some extremely restrictive (and in some cases seemingly unenforceable) rules that fortunately don't seem to have made their way across the Atlantic (yet).

With regard to complying with the rule that says that all digital signals must be centred within the channel at 5358.5kHz, doesn't this mean that in order to allow for the 50Hz bandwidth of an FT8 signal the Tx offset should be set to 1475Hz above a dial frequency of 5357.0kHz rather than 1500Hz?  If the 50Hz-wide FT8 signal starts at 1500Hz above 5357.0kHz then it won't be correctly centred within the channel.

I was operating on 60m late last night, in USB mode and with a dial frequency of 5357.0kHz, and at one point saw half a dozen or so signals from USA stations spread widely across my 2.5kHz-wide waterfall that's centred on 1500Hz so most if not all of them were non-compliant with the centre-of-channel rule.  I hope nothing nasty happens to them...

--
Martin G0HDB


locked Re: Best S&P

pete.thomas.fi
 

Last night I tried with the following heirarchy of colour selections, still the bet s&p failed to trigger: 1 new continent, 2 new dxcc on band, 3 new call on band, 4 my call in message, 5 Transmitted.
I've got something set wrong?
Pete T
Oh2euu


locked Re: Computer recommendations

Nc8q-mesh@gelm.net
 

On 2/20/20 11:54 PM, Bill Lederer wrote:
You will also find that using linux or unix will require significantly less disk/ ssd space, central memory and processing power than a windows machine.
+1

Chuck


locked Re: frequencies for 160 - 6m?

Dave_G0WBX
 

Re:-

From the ARRL:  (Via N0AN)

"These are channel-center frequencies, not the ones you tune your radio to. The NTIA told the FCC that hams "must assure that their signal is transmitted on the channel-center frequency." This means the amateur signal must be centered within the 2.8-kHz-wide channel. The FCC has provided scant guidance beyond suggesting--in a footnote that follows the NTIA's advice--that amateurs tune 1.5 kHz below the center-channel frequencies to be "on channel." Amateurs need to be sure that the tuning display readout reflects transmitted (ie, carrier) frequency (most do). Consult your transceiver's manual if you're not sure."

(my underline, & bold)


What's needed then, for your side of the pond, is a just under 2.8kHz wide, TDM system perhaps.  Keeping to the "only one may transmit at a time".  But (AFIK) no specification as to how short or fast the "transmissions" should be.

Just musing alongside the box.  Goodness knows how you'd co'ordinate something like that using Ham level technology, considering the trouble many have keeping Winderz PC's in time.

73.

Dave G0WBX.


-- 
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:


locked Re: Computer recommendations

Jim Brown
 

On 2/20/2020 4:08 PM, Jeff Moore wrote:
You can never have TOO MUCH computing power!
But we CAN often not have enough money to buy what others convince us that we need. I've done lots of very sophisticated acoustic modeling, lots of engineering applications, Autocad models, often with multiple Office-type apps open with multiple linked spreadsheets and documents, along with browsers with multiple windows open at the same time. I've never had more than 16GB RAM or a drive larger than 500GB. And years ago, I did a lot of that stuff on FAR less capable laptops.

I DON'T do fancy graphics or gaming, I don't edit video and do rather limited audio editing. And I don't store music or video on hard drives.

Optical and SS drives are one of those commodities that get cheaper every year. It's easy to buy a bigger drive to replace one that's too small, or to add an external one at a USB port.

My advice is don't let someone who's more serious than you are about things like this convince you spend more than have on more than you need!

73, Jim K9YC


locked Re: Strange Logs/Contacts

Jim Brown
 

On 2/20/2020 1:27 PM, Karza wrote:
Just turn off "Enable AP" under "Decode" menu to get rid of these
useless decodes.
Except that AP decoding can often pull valid weaker decodes out of the noise. If weak signal work matters, it's better to leave AP on, and use the BS filter between our ears to reject false decodes.

73, Jim K9YC


locked Re: Computer recommendations

Bill Lederer
 

I segregate many of my functions to different computers. For example, on my computer hooked to my radios, I don't have email, but a light amount of browsing. I do backups to a larger server that serves as general use.  My current WSJT x and contest computer has 91 gig free, 13gig used.

You will also find that using linux or unix will require significantly less disk/ ssd space, central memory and processing power than a windows machine.

That said, large amounts of ssd are really inexpensive. Keep in mind that there are varying lifetime properties depending on vendor.

w8lvn


locked Re: Computer recommendations

Jeff - KE7ACY
 

You can never have TOO MUCH computing power!

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
The Network Center


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 7:47 AM Arnold Lausevich <nk9o@...> wrote:
Looking up the specs on this computer, I was blown away!

It seems like alot of power I would not need as it would only be limited to WSJT-X , RTTY & CW.

Would it make sense for me to upgrade to this monster??

thanks,  de Joe/NK9O


locked Re: Computer recommendations

Jeff - KE7ACY
 

Sorry!  I must disagree regarding storage!   256 GB is NOT "more than enough"!!  it's barely adequate and you are likely to run out of storage after a couple of years if it lasts that long!   For example, I purchased a new laptop just over a year ago which I use for email, research, and a few ham radio things.   This is not anywhere near the storage used on the i5 tower I put in storage and in just the short time I've had it, it already has over 115 GB is use and there's literally nothing installed on it that isn't essential!!   I purchased it with 1 TB which is the minimum amount of HD space necessary in my book.  In addition, if you don't want to be sitting around waiting on your computer, you will maximize the RAM, get the fastest CPU you can afford (i3 is NOT adequate for anything), and as much storage as you can get (i5, 1 TB, 16GB RAM - those are the minimums you should be looking at).   And the big one, make sure you allow for BACKING IT ALL UP - at least 2X the built-in storage in an external drive for backups!!   If you have 1 TB internal storage, get a 2 TB EXTERNAL drive for backups!  Cheap insurance!   Backups are overlooked by almost everyone and I guarantee that will bite you on the rear EVERY time!!!  

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY
The Network Center


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 12:46 AM Michael Pittaro <mikeyp@...> wrote:
+1 for running a NUC on 12V.  Just watch your power cable size - the peak current goes from like 3A at 19V to 5A at 12V. The coax power cable from the stock PSU won't cut it.

As for choosing a PC, start with what you need, and work from there.  Number of ports and types, storage (250 GB is more than enough).  8-16GB of RAM, with 8 as a minimum these days.   Touch displays still add a premium to the price, but that's a matter of personal preference.  

Form factor is worth thinking about - laptops and convertibles win for portability, but they are mostly a fixed configuration.  A Real computer with external display, keyboard, and mouse gives you more flexibility in where you put things.  You can also defer purchase of a bigger display to later, which helps with cash flow :-)  There are some nice  'small form factor' PC's out there, so you don't need a huge tower chassis. 

Once you have requirements, it's a lot easier to shop and compare.  Look for sales - the US President's Day sales are mostly gone, but there will be more.   

mike, kj6vcp



locked Re: 1 minute Re: 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

Bonnie KQ6XA
 

60 meter band programming proposal:
If 5 MHz, don't transmit when:
TIME is equal to
hh:00:ss
hh:05:ss
hh:10:ss
hh:15:ss
hh:20:ss
hh:25:ss
hh:30:ss
hh:35:ss
hh:40:ss
hh:45:ss
hh:50:ss
hh:55:ss

That simple change to FT8 software could save the Amateur Radio Service 60 meters allocation. 

-Bonnie KQ6XA