Date   

locked Re: 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

Seannon Baker (AG0NY)
 

Hassan, I'm going to pick out a bit of info here... you stated that being able to use full bandwidth for SSB, but only the bandwidth of a single transmission on digital, which for this band is CW, (on off, not modulated) PSK31, PACTORIII, and RTTY, RTTY seems to have been added begrudgingly, but the important things of note are 1. WE ARE SECONDARY ON THIS BAND! , not primary, so we exist here only as long as we do things the way we won't get in trouble, we may get a slice of the band at some point, but we need to prove our ability to abide by the rules. 2, the band poster is pretty clear on the rules for this band,  it really is, 3. when you consider the types of use the primary users of the band have for it, (governmental) it makes sense that it would be one station transmitting at a time, period, if you transmit over someone else's transmission, you are causing interference. if you can't hear the station, it's unintentional, if you do it and you KNOW there's someone transmitting, it's INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE, and against FCC regs anyway...like if you're hearing a pileup and everyone's running 50 watts, and you decide to heck with them, I'm going to make this contact if it kills me and slam them with a beam and full legal limit, you're breaking the intent of the rules. going back to the use, we are secondary, if you have 35 stations clogging up the channel, it would take much more time to tell each person QRT than the one or two that it would be.

think of it this way, we are "BORROWING" the car... what rules should you follow when you borrow the car? the ones the person that let you use the car has, along with all local laws... don't get it dirty, don't wreck it, don't leave dirty diapers or used condoms in it don't do something that makes the person that has the car say I don't think I want to let you borrow the car again.

the rules on this band are restrictive for a reason, just as their own internal rules are on the band. I'm not even entirely convinced that it's legal for us to use FT8 on this band AT ALL because they don't specify it, they mention CW, PSK31, PACTORIII (not AMTOR or any other similar modes) and begrudgingly RTTY

Seannon, AG0NY

Only one signal at a time is permitted on any channel." (From ARRL Band Poster)
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Band%20Chart%20-%2011X17%20Color.pdf

More on Center of Channel ( 1500 Hz) Requirement:

"With your PSK31 software display configured to indicate audio frequencies, click your mouse cursor at the 1500 Hz mark (see below). With your radio in the USB mode, this marker indicates the center of the channel and it is the frequency on which you should be transmitting."

There is no special exemption for FT8, the same center channel rule applies.

In Summary from the ARRL:

1. Only one station may transmit at a time.
2. They must be at he CENTER of the allocated channel (1500 Hz)
3. NTIA has defined "on channel" as precisely 1.5 kHz below the assigned channel frequency.

These are highly restrictive and have NOT been enforced. I posted my initial "Be Careful" message, because I was warned by someone familiar with the upcoming ARRL take-over of the FCC certified Monitoring Program, that once the new program had officially started : ENFORCEMENT WOULD BE FORTHCOMING and the enforcement will include referrals to the FCC for action.

Unfortunately, the comment below reflects the attitude of many USA amateurs:

 "If the FCC is that concerned about legitimate FT8 use within that 2.8 KHz BW, they need to clarify their own rules and rationale and make this clarification known.  Because right now, its as clear as mud.  "Field Day" for lawyers, so to speak."

But the rules ARE clear here, there's a power level, compared to known quantity, they specifically give both CW center frequencies and USB frequencies as "Channels" they also give specific emissions types that are allowed, also, don't transmit when you can hear a station transmitting (only one station transmitting at any time) now, as for the rationale? that's not for us really, we have the rules to follow.

As a result,  the 60m requirements for digital, (FT8 included), have been summarily ignored if not outright violated. I, myself did so, because I did not understand how one could reasonably operate a full SSB bandwidth and that was ok, but could not use the entire 2.8 kHz bandwidth for multiple narrow band FT8 transmissions. It makes NO sense. But....the rule is unforgiving and I have been told they are going to enforce it.
It makes much more sense when you consider the government as primary, with us as secondary, it would take much more time to contact 20-30 stations to tell them to QRT than one or two governments would not try to stuff a ton of traffic in a single channel like this, they go for reliable communications over efficiency, unlike hams


Only one signal at a time is permitted on any channel." (From ARRL Band Poster)
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Band%20Chart%20-%2011X17%20Color.pdf

More on Center of Channel ( 1500 Hz) Requirement:

"With your PSK31 software display configured to indicate audio frequencies, click your mouse cursor at the 1500 Hz mark (see below). With your radio in the USB mode, this marker indicates the center of the channel and it is the frequency on which you should be transmitting."

There is no special exemption for FT8, the same center channel rule applies.

In Summary from the ARRL:

1. Only one station may transmit at a time.
2. They must be at he CENTER of the allocated channel (1500 Hz)
3. NTIA has defined "on channel" as precisely 1.5 kHz below the assigned channel frequency.

These are highly restrictive and have NOT been enforced. I posted my initial "Be Careful" message, because I was warned by someone familiar with the upcoming ARRL take-over of the FCC certified Monitoring Program, that once the new program had officially started : ENFORCEMENT WOULD BE FORTHCOMING and the enforcement will include referrals to the FCC for action.

Unfortunately, the comment below reflects the attitude of many USA amateurs:

 "If the FCC is that concerned about legitimate FT8 use within that 2.8 KHz BW, they need to clarify their own rules and rationale and make this clarification known.  Because right now, its as clear as mud.  "Field Day" for lawyers, so to speak."
The rules are pretty well spelled out, look at the chart above, there's channel info and conversions, , center channels, power requirements in relation to a specific antenna, and emissions modes (PSK31, PACTORIII not AMTOR or similar modes and RTTY, so it's questionable as to the legality of FT8 here anyway.
As a result,  the 60m requirements for digital, (FT8 included), have been summarily ignored if not outright violated. I, myself did so, because I did not understand how one could reasonably operate a full SSB bandwidth and that was ok, but could not use the entire 2.8 kHz bandwidth for multiple narrow band FT8 transmissions. It makes NO sense. But....the rule is unforgiving and I have been told they are going to enforce it.
It makes a lot more sense when you consider the PRIMARY on the band, and not us as amateurs that are secondary. governments would use this as close to a clear channel for simplicity's sake especially true in emergency communications, or wartime, so, if you hear someone transmitting, wait, don't transmit on top of them, it could be life or death. We as hams like to make the case for efficiency, the government for reliable communications

I have advocated one thing and one thing only: Be Careful. I don't have horse this race. It would be a shame, however, if we lost this allocation or someone would get a QSL card from the FCC because they refused to exercise some caution in the matter.



I have advocated one thing and one thing only: Be Careful. I don't have horse this race. It would be a shame, however, if we lost this allocation or someone would get a QSL card from the FCC because they refused to exercise some caution in the matter.



On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 7:55 AM Hasan Schiers N0AN <hbasri.schiers6@...> wrote:
From the ARRL:
These are channel-center frequencies, not the ones you tune your radio to. The NTIA told the FCC that hams "must assure that their signal is transmitted on the channel-center frequency." This means the amateur signal must be centered within the 2.8-kHz-wide channel. The FCC has provided scant guidance beyond suggesting--in a footnote that follows the NTIA's advice--that amateurs tune 1.5 kHz below the center-channel frequencies to be "on channel." Amateurs need to be sure that the tuning display readout reflects transmitted (ie, carrier) frequency (most do). Consult your transceiver's manual if you're not sure.

From the ARRL:
In addition, the FCC continues to require that all digital transmissions be centered on the channel-center frequencies, which the Report and Order defines as being 1.5 kHz above the suppressed carrier frequency of a transceiver operated in the Upper Sideband (USB) mode. This is typically the frequency shown on the frequency display.

(Note that this does not say 1580, 1320, 700, ...it says 1.5 kHz) my comment, not ARRL's)

http://www.arrl.org/60m-channel-allocation
"Operating at strict channel-center frequencies may come as a disappointment to many, but cooperating with the NTIA is key to expanded privileges in the future.
The channel center frequencies are":..snipped...60 meters

"Only one signal at a time is permitted on any channel." (From ARRL Band Poster)
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Band%20Chart%20-%2011X17%20Color.pdf

More on Center of Channel ( 1500 Hz) Requirement:

"With your PSK31 software display configured to indicate audio frequencies, click your mouse cursor at the 1500 Hz mark (see below). With your radio in the USB mode, this marker indicates the center of the channel and it is the frequency on which you should be transmitting."

There is no special exemption for FT8, the same center channel rule applies.

In Summary from the ARRL:

1. Only one station may transmit at a time.
2. They must be at he CENTER of the allocated channel (1500 Hz)
3. NTIA has defined "on channel" as precisely 1.5 kHz below the assigned channel frequency.

These are highly restrictive and have NOT been enforced. I posted my initial "Be Careful" message, because I was warned by someone familiar with the upcoming ARRL take-over of the FCC certified Monitoring Program, that once the new program had officially started : ENFORCEMENT WOULD BE FORTHCOMING and the enforcement will include referrals to the FCC for action.

Unfortunately, the comment below reflects the attitude of many USA amateurs:

 "If the FCC is that concerned about legitimate FT8 use within that 2.8 KHz BW, they need to clarify their own rules and rationale and make this clarification known.  Because right now, its as clear as mud.  "Field Day" for lawyers, so to speak."

As a result,  the 60m requirements for digital, (FT8 included), have been summarily ignored if not outright violated. I, myself did so, because I did not understand how one could reasonably operate a full SSB bandwidth and that was ok, but could not use the entire 2.8 kHz bandwidth for multiple narrow band FT8 transmissions. It makes NO sense. But....the rule is unforgiving and I have been told they are going to enforce it.

I have advocated one thing and one thing only: Be Careful. I don't have horse this race. It would be a shame, however, if we lost this allocation or someone would get a QSL card from the FCC because they refused to exercise some caution in the matter.

73, N0AN
Hasan


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 5:41 AM Seannon Baker (AG0NY) <KD4IYI@...> wrote:
Also, it clearly states that no more than one station transmit at any given time thus also limiting to a conversational rather than a transactional contact type. (If you hear a conversation, don't transmit, if you hear a CQ, answer it unless you hear someone else answering)


Seannon, ag0ny

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 05:15 Nc8q-mesh@... <nc8q-mesh@...> wrote:
On 2/20/20 5:17 AM, Hasan Schiers N0AN wrote:
Again, ARRL have *on multiple occasions* reported communications from
FCC Enforcement staff (and NTIA who are responsible for the "60 M
band") reminding US licensed amateurs that 97.303(h) requires using
*identical* audio frequency and carrier offsets so that the transmitted
signal is centered exactly on the middle of the assigned "Channel" -
not generating a random offset within a 2.7 KHz "band".

IMHO, this discussion of operating FT8 on 60 meters deserves its own thread.

 From looking at the waterfall display (Wide Graph),
it seems to me that a FT8 Tx frequency of 1500 indicates signals from
'dial frequency + 1500 Hz' to 'dial frequency + ~1548 Hz'.

The get TX signals centered on 1500 Hz,
 would it not require setting WSJTX to 1476 Hz ?

Chuck






--
“It is a simple feat of scientific electrical engineering — only expensive — blind, faint-hearted, doubting world.”

Nikola Tesla



locked 2019 FT Roundup Results

Don Hill AA5AU
 

The results of the 2019 FT Roundup are now final and online.

https://www.rttycontesting.com/ft-roundup/2019-results/

If you are interested in seeing your LCR (log check report), please send
your request to Ed ed@....

Online certificates are available to all participants.

73, Don AA5AU & Ed W0YK


locked Re: Apologies

Michael WA7SKG
 

Reminds me of when my obituary was published in the local paper a couple of years ago. First I knew of it was when I got a card from a lady who does estate settlements. I asked who died and she stammered and said "Umm, you."

Everybody was really surprised when I walked into church that Sunday.

Small town, but nobody knew there was another person about the same age and description with the same name.

Michael WA7SKG

Tony via Groups.Io wrote on 2/21/20 2:04 PM:

On 2/21/20 11:22 AM, Don Hill AA5AU wrote:
Earlier this week I announced that Tom Morrison, K5TM, had passed away. Fortunately he is still alive and well and my announcement was in error. I just heard from him today. ...
I believe it was Sam Clemens who stated "Rumors of my death have been highly exaggerated."


locked Re: Computer to radio connection YAESU 857/897

Jim Brown
 

On 2/21/2020 2:56 PM, Frank Mellott wrote:
I don't use HRD but this could be a reason to start!
It's my understanding that Commander, which is part of the excellent FREEWARE DXlab Suite offers the functionality that you're looking for.

73, Jim K9YC


locked Re: Computer to radio connection YAESU 857/897

Frank Mellott
 

Thanks

I don't use HRD but this could be a reason to start!

appreciate the tip!

Frank

KB3PQT


locked Operating guidelines for FT8

James F. Boehner, MD
 

If I can offer a bit of information:

 

http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-reiterates-its-case-for-new-band-at-5-mhz

 

Hope this helps!

 

’73 de JIM N2ZZ

 

From: WSJTX@groups.io [mailto:WSJTX@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:04 PM
To: WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

 

We haven’t petitioned the FCC and NTIA, AFAIK. 

 

(but I can verify that)

 

73

Ria, N2RJ 

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:35 PM Larry Burke <wi5a@...> wrote:

Thank you, Ria, for your informed response!

 

In your related e-mail you state: “Some countries do not have channelization on 60m. In 9Y I can use 1.5kw from 5.25 to 5.45MHz without restriction. It’s just another HF band.” Exactly. Also interesting that this is possible in the Americas (Trinidad & Tobago, Grenada, etc.)  with no apparent issues.

 

Are there any efforts underway to make the band continuous in the US? The IARU recommended this back in 2015, albeit implemented at 15 watts in most countries. Some basic reg changes would sure clear up much of the confusion with the use of FT8 and other modes on this band.

 

BTW, a good compilation of authorizations by country can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band

 

 

Larry K5RK

 

 

From: WSJTX@groups.io <WSJTX@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:42 AM
To: WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

 

I’m not aware of any complaints by the NTIA against radio amateurs for using FT8 on 60m.

The volunteer monitor program nor the FCC are sending out violation notices. I keep abreast of enforcement issues and I’ve asked numerous departments at ARRL. This isn’t a concern with anyone there.

ARRL doesn’t have any awards for 60m contacts. So anyone doing 60m contacts there does it for their own enjoyment.

73
Ria, N2RJ 

 


locked Re: Computer to radio connection

Marty Hartwell <mhartwe@...>
 

Hi Richard

What is connected to the CAT connection on the back of the rig?


Marty kd8bj


On 2/21/20 2:23 PM, Richard DeRose wrote:

The signial link is connected to the data on the radio No place left to connect the computer to.

Richard DeRose
561-441-6376
102 Blackjack Lane
Burleson, Texas 76028
KG5FNS

Life's journey is not
to arrive safely at the grave
in a well preserved body
but rather to skid in sideways
totally worn out, shouting
Holy Cow    What a ride.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 10:47 AM Bob Lewis <aa4pb@...> wrote:

You have to add a connection between your rig’s CAT control and the computer. The SignaLink  provides audio and PTT connections only. It does not include any interface for rig control (frequency, mode, etc).

 

From: WSJTX@groups.io [mailto:WSJTX@groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard DeRose
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
To: WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Computer to radio connection

 

I am using a PC with Windows 10 and WSJTX connected to a ft897 through a signal link. I cannot get the computer to connect to get the frequency. What settings are required.?

Dick DeRose
dderose911@...
561-441-6376
KG5FNS

Life's journey is not
to arrive safely at the grave
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totaly worn out, shouting
"Holy Cow.........What a ride!"




    


locked Oops - Sorry to List -Re: [WSJTX] Russell/W8DN

Mike / W8DN
 

...hate when that happens !!

On 2/21/2020 5:11 PM, Mike Rhodes via Groups.Io wrote:

Tom,
  Thanks for the reply. Always glad to gather any info I can about the original W8DN. I have searched for an obit for Mr. Flora but have not been successful so far so maybe you can help. I'm thinking that he may have become a SK about the time I received my novice license in 1964 but have no proof of that. I received the W8DN call when the FCC made 1x2 and 1x2 "N" calls available to Extra class licensees. Unfortunately I did not keep my earlier licenses but that would have been in the mid 70s I believe. Think I have a reasonable approximation of that time frame in my log so will have to do some searching.
  Interestingly enough, I received an original W8DN QSL and eyeball QSO card from Dale Repp/W8MCQ who now has a Zero call (if he still survives). Guess I gave him quite a start because I was on the CW County Hunters Net and he heard me. Said Russell threw his key as far as he could when he got AM capabilities and never looked back. :-)  . Can't put my hands on the envelope right now so do not remember the dates. Oh yeah, the QSO/QSL date is 12/15/34.
  As I said, any info about the original W8DN you can send my way will be greatly appreciated. I used to make it to the Toledo Hamfest on a somewhat regular basis and almost always  got stopped by someone who knew Russel.

Thanks and 73 de
Mike / W8DN #2

On 2/21/2020 12:58 PM, n8tl wrote:

Hi Mike:

My name is Tom and my call is N8TL. I wanted to pass along to you some information that you might not be aware of.  The previous owner of the W8DN call sign was Russell Flora from Sylvania, Ohio.  Located on outskirts of Toledo.  In my  teen days, I would attend Mobile Radio Club meetings at Russ's garage. Russ was a good friend and Ham Radio Mentor. His primary mode was AM on 160 meters. There were a lot of 160 meter mobile hams in those days.  This time frame was the late 1950's to the mid to late 1960's.  Thought you might be interested in the history.

Regards, and, 73,  Tom N8TL


On 2020-02-21 11:43 a.m., Mike Rhodes wrote:
Signalink does nothing more than provide the audio component for digital modes. To read the frequency and/or control your radio will require CAT connection and appropriate interface.

Mike / W8DN

On 2/21/2020 9:11 AM, Richard DeRose wrote:
I am using a PC with Windows 10 and WSJTX connected to a ft897 through a signal link. I cannot get the computer to connect to get the frequency. What settings are required.?

Dick DeRose
dderose911@...
561-441-6376
KG5FNS

Life's journey is not
to arrive safely at the grave
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totaly worn out, shouting
"Holy Cow.........What a ride!"







    


locked Russell/W8DN

Mike / W8DN
 

Tom,
  Thanks for the reply. Always glad to gather any info I can about the original W8DN. I have searched for an obit for Mr. Flora but have not been successful so far so maybe you can help. I'm thinking that he may have become a SK about the time I received my novice license in 1964 but have no proof of that. I received the W8DN call when the FCC made 1x2 and 1x2 "N" calls available to Extra class licensees. Unfortunately I did not keep my earlier licenses but that would have been in the mid 70s I believe. Think I have a reasonable approximation of that time frame in my log so will have to do some searching.
  Interestingly enough, I received an original W8DN QSL and eyeball QSO card from Dale Repp/W8MCQ who now has a Zero call (if he still survives). Guess I gave him quite a start because I was on the CW County Hunters Net and he heard me. Said Russell threw his key as far as he could when he got AM capabilities and never looked back. :-)  . Can't put my hands on the envelope right now so do not remember the dates. Oh yeah, the QSO/QSL date is 12/15/34.
  As I said, any info about the original W8DN you can send my way will be greatly appreciated. I used to make it to the Toledo Hamfest on a somewhat regular basis and almost always  got stopped by someone who knew Russel.

Thanks and 73 de
Mike / W8DN #2

On 2/21/2020 12:58 PM, n8tl wrote:

Hi Mike:

My name is Tom and my call is N8TL. I wanted to pass along to you some information that you might not be aware of.  The previous owner of the W8DN call sign was Russell Flora from Sylvania, Ohio.  Located on outskirts of Toledo.  In my  teen days, I would attend Mobile Radio Club meetings at Russ's garage. Russ was a good friend and Ham Radio Mentor. His primary mode was AM on 160 meters. There were a lot of 160 meter mobile hams in those days.  This time frame was the late 1950's to the mid to late 1960's.  Thought you might be interested in the history.

Regards, and, 73,  Tom N8TL


On 2020-02-21 11:43 a.m., Mike Rhodes wrote:
Signalink does nothing more than provide the audio component for digital modes. To read the frequency and/or control your radio will require CAT connection and appropriate interface.

Mike / W8DN

On 2/21/2020 9:11 AM, Richard DeRose wrote:
I am using a PC with Windows 10 and WSJTX connected to a ft897 through a signal link. I cannot get the computer to connect to get the frequency. What settings are required.?

Dick DeRose
dderose911@...
561-441-6376
KG5FNS

Life's journey is not
to arrive safely at the grave
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totaly worn out, shouting
"Holy Cow.........What a ride!"





    


locked Re: Apologies

Tony <ynotssor@...>
 

On 2/21/20 11:22 AM, Don Hill AA5AU wrote:
Earlier this week I announced that Tom Morrison, K5TM, had passed away. Fortunately he is still alive and well and my announcement was in error. I just heard from him today. ...
I believe it was Sam Clemens who stated "Rumors of my death have been highly exaggerated."


locked Re: Computer to radio connection YAESU 857/897

Jim W7JMM
 

Hi Frank, I had the same situation with my 857d and use the signaling and YT-100. My problems were with CAT control. I found if I run my HRD it fixed it. I just start HRD first and the WSJT-X. I also set HRD logging to run simultaneously.
73, 
Jim, W7JMM 


locked Re: 1 minute Re: 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

Seannon Baker (AG0NY)
 

So, I've spent a while searching the FCC web... everyone knows what a pain it can be.., I'm going to drop the link here and point at a couple of sections, hopefully it will help clear this up. along with this, I'd like to point out that FT8 is an RTTY derivative, RTTY is accepted for use on the band BUT ONLY ON THE CENTER FREQUENCY OF THE CHANNEL! there is only ONE place we are allowed to transmit... ON the center frequency! which is setting to the USB frequency and setting the tx at 1500hz in the program, not 1225, not 500, not 2000, 1500 ONLY! also, if we hear other traffic on the channel, per arrl rules, don't tx.

IN THE US, we have to follow the US part of the rules, other countries have different rules, we have to follow our set.


9. Under the existing rules, only upper sideband voice transmissions are permitted in the 60 meter band. In the NPRM, the Commission proposed to authorize the use of three additional emission designators in the band: CW emission 150HA1A, which is Morse telegraphy by means of on-off keying, and data emissions 2K80J2D and 60H0J2B. In § 97.307(f)(14)(i) of the proposed rules, the Commission restricts emission designator 2K80J2D to data using PACTOR-III technique and emission designator 60H0J2B to data using PSK31 technique. The Commission also sought comment on whether amateur stations could be permitted to transmit emission types in addition to those requested by ARRL in the 60 meter band without increasing the likelihood of interference to primary users. As discussed, the Commission adopts its proposal to allow the use of the three additional emission designators.

13. The Commission adopts its proposal to authorize the use of three additional emission designators in the 60 meter band. These additional capabilities can serve to enhance amateur emergency communications and allow for greater experimentation in the band, and it believes that doing so is in the public interest. We note, however, that because “emission J2B” is specifically defined in part 97 of our rules to be a Radio Teletype (RTTY) emission, emission designator 60H0J2B must be codified as a RTTY emission in order to provide for consistency within part 97 of our rules. Accordingly, the Commission authorizes control operators to transmit the following additional emission types and designators in the 60 meter band: CW emissions, limited to emission 150HA1A (i.e., Morse code telegraphy); data emissions, limited to emission 2K80J2D (exemplified by PACTOR-III); and RTTY emissions, limited to emission 60H0J2B (exemplified by PSK31).

20. Operation on Channel Centers. Section 97.303(h) currently requires that amateur operators ensure that their station's transmission occupies only 2.8 kHz centered at each of the five center frequencies. The NPRM proposed that, for amateur stations transmitting CW emissions and PSK31 data emissions, the carrier frequency shall be set to the center frequency. NTIA has requested that the Commission continue to restrict amateur service transmissions in this manner.

So, now for the actual part 97 rules!
 this is from CfR 47 part 2: US23 In the band 5330.5-5406.4 kHz (60 m band), the assigned frequencies 5332, 5348, 5358.5, 5373, and 5405 kHz are allocated to the amateur service on a secondary basis. Amateur service use of the 60 m band frequencies is restricted to a maximum effective radiated power of 100 W PEP and to the following emission types and designators: phone (2K80J3E), data (2K80J2D), RTTY (60H0J2B), and CW (150HA1A). Amateur operators using the data and RTTY emissions must exercise care to limit the length of transmissions so as to avoid causing harmful interference to Federal stations.

PART 97—AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE

3. The authority citation for part 97 continues to read as follows:

Authority: 48 Stat. 1066, 1082, as amended: 47 U.S.C. 154, 303. Interpret or apply 48 Stat. 1064-1068, 1081-1105, as amended; 47 U.S.C. 151-155, 301-609, unless otherwise noted.

4. Section 97.221 is amended by revising paragraph (c) to read as follows:

Automatically controlled digital station.
* * * * *

(c) Except for channels specified in § 97.303(h), a station may be automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY or data emission on any other frequency authorized for such emission types provided that:

(1) The station is responding to interrogation by a station under local or remote control; and

(2) No transmission from the automatically controlled station occupies a bandwidth of more than 500 Hz.

5. Section 97.303 is amended by revising paragraph (h) to read as follows.

Frequency sharing requirements.
* * * * *

(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified in the table below. In order to meet this requirement, control operators of stations transmitting phone, data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center frequency as specified in the table below. For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A), the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency. Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each of these center frequencies.

60 M Band Frequencies (kHz)

CarrierCenter
5330.55332.0
5346.55348.0
5357.05358.5
5371.55373.0
5403.55405.0

(2) Amateur stations transmitting on the 60 m band must not cause harmful interference to, and must accept interference from, stations authorized by:

(i) The United States (NTIA and FCC) and other nations in the fixed service; and

(ii) Other nations in the mobile except aeronautical mobile service.

* * * * *

6. Section 97.305 is amended by revising the table in paragraph (c) by inserting the new entry “60 m” between the “75 m” and “40 m” entries to read as follows.

Authorized emission types.
* * * * *

(c) * * *

Wavelength bandFrequenciesEmission types authorizedStandards see § 97.307(f), paragraph:



*         *         *         *         *         *         *
HF:


80 mEntire bandRTTY, data(3), (9).
75 mEntire bandPhone, image(1), (2).
60 m5.332, 5.348, 5.3585, 5.373 and 5.405 MHzPhone, RTTY, data(14).
40 m7.000-7.100 MHzRTTY, data(3), (9).



*         *         *         *         *         *         *

7. Section 97.307 is amended by adding paragraph (f)(14) to read as follows.

Emission standards.
* * * * *

(f) * * *

(14) In the 60 m band:

(i) A station may transmit only phone, RTTY, data, and CW emissions using the emission designators and any additional restrictions that are specified in the table below (except that the use of a narrower necessary bandwidth is permitted):

60 M Band Emission Requirements

Emission typeEmission designatorRestricted to:
Phone2K80J3EUpper sideband transmissions (USB).
Data2K80J2DUSB (for example, PACTOR-III).
RTTY60H0J2BUSB (for example, PSK31).
CW150HA1AMorse telegraphy by means of on-off keying.

(ii) The following requirements also apply:

(A) When transmitting the phone, RTTY, and data emissions, the suppressed carrier frequency may be set as specified in § 97.303(h).

(B) The control operator of a station transmitting data or RTTY emissions must exercise care to limit the length of transmission so as to avoid causing harmful interference to United States Government stations.

Seannon, AG0NY


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:53 AM Amir K9CHP <sarlabs@...> wrote:
I used the band once or twice, for a MARS exercise, on phone. I don't think FT8 is really compatible with the very unclear regulations on that band. Don't look me up there. There is plenty of room elsewhere.

--

73 de Amir K9CHP

ARRL, Emergency Coordinator (EC)
Liverpool Amateur Repeater Club www.W2CM.org
Radio Amateurs of Greater Syracuse  www.ragsclub.org
Wilderness SAR (ret.) www.wsar.org
Eagle Valley Search Dogs (ret.) www.evdogs.org

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 11:35 Ria, N2RJ <rjairam@...> wrote:

The source code is open, and many will just reverse engineer and disable this. Not everyone uses WSJTX for FT8 anyway. Not many of the full auto robot guys. They use their own software like MSHV or WSJT-Z which is a fork of WSJT-X.

JT and the dev team have taken out 60m from the default frequencies anyway. People are adding it back in themselves or using other software.

The only real solution is to use one of the other channels, until another DX channel opens up or we get rid of channelization.  Some countries do not have channelization on 60m. In 9Y I can use 1.5kw from 5.25 to 5.45MHz without restriction. It’s just another HF band.

There is no ARRL award for operation on that band. So there is less incentive to operate there anyway. 

73,
Ria
N2RJ





--
“It is a simple feat of scientific electrical engineering — only expensive — blind, faint-hearted, doubting world.”

Nikola Tesla



locked Re: Apologies

Russ Ravella
 

This, of course, is extremely good news! Thanks for the clarification.


On Feb 21, 2020, at 1:24 PM, D. Scott MacKenzie <kb0fhp@...> wrote:



Sounds like Monty Python:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYcPBE5PXhs

 

 

 

From: WSJTX@groups.io <WSJTX@groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Hill AA5AU
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:23 PM
To: WSJT <wsjtx@groups.io>
Subject: [WSJTX] Apologies

 

Earlier this week I announced that Tom Morrison, K5TM, had passed away. Fortunately he is still alive and well and my announcement was in error. I just heard from him today.

 

I apologized to him and now am apologizing to the group for my mistake.

 

Tom is the one who wrote the code for the FT8 Roundup (2018) and FT Roundup (2019) online certificates that are available on rttycontesting.com.

 

73, Don AA5AU

 

 



locked Re: Computer to radio connection YAESU 857/897

Frank Mellott
 

Good afternoon

I have an 857D which is set up like the 897D.  Do you happen to have an antenna tuner attached?  I have an LDG YT-100 and has a spare CAT port so that you can connect the tuner and CAT simultaneously.  On the rear of the radio you have a DATA jack for the Signalink and the CAT/linear jack for the CAT computer cable.

So yes, you can connect CAT and Signalink simultaneously.

Caveat:

I started with a Rigblaster plug and play.  Supposedly awesome sound card, but I could not get it to work with my 857D and in my internet searches no one else could either.  The Signalink definitely works and I have have made several contacts with it. With FT8 before version 1.9 CAT was recommended but not required. When I switched to 1.9 CAT was pretty much required and I could not figure out the proper settings for the 857D and Signalink to work with WSJT-X 1.9.  I am half convinced I may have a bad CAT port, but even more convinced the problem is with the operator.

The linear jack for the CAT is on the back closest the power cable. The one to the right as you face the back is the data jack for the Signalink. They are very similar but not the same plug.

One of my winter/spring projects is to get the 857D and CAT to work. Been over a year since I messed with it.

The newer FTDX1200 is much more computer/CAT friendly and I have a few hundred FT8 contacts on t.  but the now 15 year or so old 857/897 family takes a little more work it seems.


Frank

KB3PQT


locked Re: Computer to radio connection

Bill Somerville
 

On 21/02/2020 20:23, Richard DeRose wrote:
The signial link is connected to the data on the radio No place left to connect the computer to.

Richard DeRose

Richard,

there are two sockets on the back of the FT-817/857/897(D) rigs. One for DATA AFSK audio and PTT, the other for CAT control:

You need a CAT interface cable if you want CAT control of your rig.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


locked Re: Computer to radio connection

John
 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Richard DeRose <dderose911@...>
Date: February 21, 2020 at 3:23 PM


The signial link is connected to the data on the radio No place left to
connect the computer to.

Richard DeRose
561-441-6376
102 Blackjack Lane
Burleson, Texas 76028
KG5FNS

Life's journey is not
to arrive safely at the grave
in a well preserved body
but rather to skid in sideways
totally worn out, shouting
Holy Cow What a ride.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 10:47 AM Bob Lewis <aa4pb@...> wrote:

You have to add a connection between your rig’s CAT control and the
computer. The SignaLink provides audio and PTT connections only. It does
not include any interface for rig control (frequency, mode, etc).



*From:* WSJTX@groups.io [mailto:WSJTX@groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Richard
DeRose
*Sent:* Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* WSJTX@groups.io
*Subject:* [WSJTX] Computer to radio connection



I am using a PC with Windows 10 and WSJTX connected to a ft897 through a
signal link. I cannot get the computer to connect to get the frequency.
What settings are required.?

Dick DeRose
dderose911@...
561-441-6376
KG5FNS

Life's journey is not
to arrive safely at the grave
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totaly worn out, shouting
"Holy Cow.........What a ride!"


locked Re: Apologies

D. Scott MacKenzie
 

Sounds like Monty Python:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYcPBE5PXhs

 

 

 

From: WSJTX@groups.io <WSJTX@groups.io> On Behalf Of Don Hill AA5AU
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:23 PM
To: WSJT <wsjtx@groups.io>
Subject: [WSJTX] Apologies

 

Earlier this week I announced that Tom Morrison, K5TM, had passed away. Fortunately he is still alive and well and my announcement was in error. I just heard from him today.

 

I apologized to him and now am apologizing to the group for my mistake.

 

Tom is the one who wrote the code for the FT8 Roundup (2018) and FT Roundup (2019) online certificates that are available on rttycontesting.com.

 

73, Don AA5AU

 

 


locked Re: Computer to radio connection

Richard DeRose
 

The signial link is connected to the data on the radio No place left to connect the computer to.

Richard DeRose
561-441-6376
102 Blackjack Lane
Burleson, Texas 76028
KG5FNS

Life's journey is not
to arrive safely at the grave
in a well preserved body
but rather to skid in sideways
totally worn out, shouting
Holy Cow    What a ride.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 10:47 AM Bob Lewis <aa4pb@...> wrote:

You have to add a connection between your rig’s CAT control and the computer. The SignaLink  provides audio and PTT connections only. It does not include any interface for rig control (frequency, mode, etc).

 

From: WSJTX@groups.io [mailto:WSJTX@groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard DeRose
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 9:11 AM
To: WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Computer to radio connection

 

I am using a PC with Windows 10 and WSJTX connected to a ft897 through a signal link. I cannot get the computer to connect to get the frequency. What settings are required.?

Dick DeRose
dderose911@...
561-441-6376
KG5FNS

Life's journey is not
to arrive safely at the grave
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totaly worn out, shouting
"Holy Cow.........What a ride!"



locked Re: 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

Richard Bertrand Larson
 

So if I tune my radio to channel 3 @5357.0 mhz with a center frequency of
5358.5 mhz using FT8 . The FT8 modulation scheme is 8-FSK i.e. an 8-bit transmission using 8 different audio. The tones separated by just 6.25 Hz, giving an overall transmission bandwidth under optimal conditions of 50 Hz , so my question is with a data BW of 50hz then with a BW for the channel of 2.8 khz should it not be very easy to be in overall BW compliance ????

On 2/21/2020 7:41 AM, Ria, N2RJ wrote:

I’m not aware of any complaints by the NTIA against radio amateurs for using FT8 on 60m.

The volunteer monitor program nor the FCC are sending out violation notices. I keep abreast of enforcement issues and I’ve asked numerous departments at ARRL. This isn’t a concern with anyone there.

ARRL doesn’t have any awards for 60m contacts. So anyone doing 60m contacts there does it for their own enjoyment.

73
Ria, N2RJ 

    


locked Re: 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

Ria, N2RJ
 

We haven’t petitioned the FCC and NTIA, AFAIK. 

(but I can verify that)

73
Ria, N2RJ 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 1:35 PM Larry Burke <wi5a@...> wrote:

Thank you, Ria, for your informed response!

 

In your related e-mail you state: “Some countries do not have channelization on 60m. In 9Y I can use 1.5kw from 5.25 to 5.45MHz without restriction. It’s just another HF band.” Exactly. Also interesting that this is possible in the Americas (Trinidad & Tobago, Grenada, etc.)  with no apparent issues.

 

Are there any efforts underway to make the band continuous in the US? The IARU recommended this back in 2015, albeit implemented at 15 watts in most countries. Some basic reg changes would sure clear up much of the confusion with the use of FT8 and other modes on this band.

 

BTW, a good compilation of authorizations by country can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60-meter_band

 

 

Larry K5RK

 

 

From: WSJTX@groups.io <WSJTX@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ria, N2RJ
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 7:42 AM
To: WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] 60 meters: Operating guidelines for FT8

 

I’m not aware of any complaints by the NTIA against radio amateurs for using FT8 on 60m.

The volunteer monitor program nor the FCC are sending out violation notices. I keep abreast of enforcement issues and I’ve asked numerous departments at ARRL. This isn’t a concern with anyone there.

ARRL doesn’t have any awards for 60m contacts. So anyone doing 60m contacts there does it for their own enjoyment.

73
Ria, N2RJ