Date   

locked Re: WSPR output power at <0 dBm #WSPR

Alan G4ZFQ
 

On 20/10/2021 00:37, Bruce KX4AZ wrote:
I do wish there were a way to /advertise/ power levels /lower than 0 dBm/,
Bruce,

The only way I know is wsprnet.
In your profile or "Chat". But unfortunately I do not think it is used by many.

I assume the protocol can't easily modified to do that without breaking the decoding ability.
I also would like lower powers to be accommodated but I guess the protocol can not be altered without a complete worldwide update of WSPR:-)

73 Alan G4ZFQ


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

Bill Somerville
 

On 20/10/2021 10:37, Martin G0HDB wrote:
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:47 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
Hi Mike and all,
 
I checked my stratum 1 NTP server, which is a Raspberry Pi Raspberry Pi OS Linux system. It is using gpsd 3.17 (as is my 64-bit Rapberry Pi OS system) so I think a lot of home stratum 1 GPS time servers will be OK without patching. I would hope that the Debian package maintainers will skip gpsd 3.20 thru 3.22 if they decide to backport a newer version.
Hi Bill, I've also got a stratum 1 GPS NTP server based on an Raspberry Pi (Model B IIRC) that I built in 2015; it's running the 'wheezy' version of Raspbian.  I've never got round to trying to update to a later version of the OS!  How do I check what version of gpsd is installed?

73, and TIA

--
Martin G0HDB

Hi Martin,

gpsd -V

73
Bill
G4WJS.


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

Martin G0HDB
 

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 06:47 PM, Bill Somerville wrote:
Hi Mike and all,
 
I checked my stratum 1 NTP server, which is a Raspberry Pi Raspberry Pi OS Linux system. It is using gpsd 3.17 (as is my 64-bit Rapberry Pi OS system) so I think a lot of home stratum 1 GPS time servers will be OK without patching. I would hope that the Debian package maintainers will skip gpsd 3.20 thru 3.22 if they decide to backport a newer version.
Hi Bill, I've also got a stratum 1 GPS NTP server based on an Raspberry Pi (Model B IIRC) that I built in 2015; it's running the 'wheezy' version of Raspbian.  I've never got round to trying to update to a later version of the OS!  How do I check what version of gpsd is installed?

73, and TIA

--
Martin G0HDB


locked Re: Crash when double click on Rx Frequency side under some circumstance #Windows10

Steve G1YBB
 

Paul,

Im also using v2.2.2 for the same reason as you and I have had the exact same issues as you with the 3DA0 stations. Both the instant crash if you double click a 2 message line, and the transmission to me not showing up in the RHS window. 

Normally its very stable.

I shall just be careful with these strange dual transmissions.

Steve
G1YBB 


locked WSPR output power at <0 dBm #WSPR

Bruce KX4AZ
 

I have had many hours of fun over the past few years, transmitting very weak WSPR signals at <0 dBm (1 milliwatt) output power.  My most recent "experiments" were at a level close to -20 dBm, aka 10 microwatts.  Still spotted a few hundred miles away by a few stations.  I do wish there were a way to advertise power levels lower than 0 dBm, the lower limit in the current WSPR protocol.  I assume the protocol can't easily modified to do that without breaking the decoding ability.


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2021-10-19 4:37 PM, Philip Rose via groups.io wrote:
But how do I know that the NTP servers I attach my Meinberg NTP clients to have been updated
If you use multiple servers, Meinberg should ignore any with bad
times as "false tickers" or "outlyers". I "seed" my NTP configuration
file with two or three publicly accessible stratum 1 servers and
then use four additional pool servers. The combination of servers
should provide sufficient diversity for Meinberg to spot an outlyer.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-10-19 4:37 PM, Philip Rose via groups.io wrote:
But how do I know that the NTP servers I attach my Meinberg NTP clients to have been updated to gpsd 3.23? I’ll just have to check my laptop and shack PC before operating. If I get the wrong date from them then after I repair the date will it get changed again by the next NTP update?
73 Phil GM3ZZA.
Sent from Mail for Windows
From: Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19 October 2021 18:27
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #AllOperatingSystems #Timesync
Has been fixed in gpsd 3.23 and apparently bug is not present in 3.19 and earlier.
https://gitlab.com/gpsd/gpsd/-/issues/144
Mike W9MDB
On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 10:10:29 AM CDT, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:
Info from https://www.zdnet.com/article/thanks-to-a-nasty-gpsd-bug-real-life-time-travel-trouble-arrives-this-weekend/
WSJT users typically utilize frequent time synchronization via upstream time servers on the web.  According to this article, "a nasty bug's been uncovered in GPSD that's going to pop up on October 24, 2021. If left unpatched, it's going to switch your time to some time in March 2012, and your system will crash."
NTP determines what time it is by synchronizing NTP servers with atomic clocks.  NTP is based on a hierarchy of levels, where each level is assigned a number called the stratum. Stratum 1 (primary) servers at the lowest level are directly synchronized to national time services via satellite, radio, or modem. Stratum 2 (secondary) servers are synchronized to stratum 1 servers and so on. Usually, NTP clients and servers connect to Stratum 2 servers.
How do stratum 1 servers sync up with clocks? Many of them use GPSD. This service daemon monitors one or more GPSes for location, course, velocity, and for our purposes, the most important element it tracks is time. This code, which is a mix of a linkable C service library, a C++ wrapper class, and a Python module, has, like all programs, its fair share of bugs.  Recently it was discovered that a bug in the time rollback (aka "GPS Week Rollover") sanity checking code scheduled for November 2038 will instead cause 1,024 to be subtracted from the October 24, 2021 week number. In other words, a lot of computers are in for a quick, sharp visit to March 2002.
So, check your systems now for this problem. And, if, like most of us, you're relying on someone upstream from you for the correct time, check with them to make sure they've taken care of this forthcoming trouble.
See more in the article....


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

careyfisher@...
 

Gil,
Nothing happened then because we spent a lot of time and money fixing stuff.
WB4HXE, Carey


On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 12:40 PM Gilbert Baron <w0mn00@...> wrote:

Let us not have another Year 2000 flap. Nothing bad happened then and it will not now.

 

Outlook Laptop Gil W0MN

Hierro candente, batir de repente

44.08226N 92.51265W EN34rb

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 12:28
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #AllOperatingSystems #Timesync

 

Has been fixed in gpsd 3.23 and apparently bug is not present in 3.19 and earlier. 

 

 

 

Mike W9MDB 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 10:10:29 AM CDT, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:

 

 

Info from https://www.zdnet.com/article/thanks-to-a-nasty-gpsd-bug-real-life-time-travel-trouble-arrives-this-weekend/

 

WSJT users typically utilize frequent time synchronization via upstream time servers on the web.  According to this article, "a nasty bug's been uncovered in GPSD that's going to pop up on October 24, 2021. If left unpatched, it's going to switch your time to some time in March 2012, and your system will crash."

 

NTP determines what time it is by synchronizing NTP servers with atomic clocks.  NTP is based on a hierarchy of levels, where each level is assigned a number called the stratum. Stratum 1 (primary) servers at the lowest level are directly synchronized to national time services via satellite, radio, or modem. Stratum 2 (secondary) servers are synchronized to stratum 1 servers and so on. Usually, NTP clients and servers connect to Stratum 2 servers.

 

How do stratum 1 servers sync up with clocks? Many of them use GPSD. This service daemon monitors one or more GPSes for location, course, velocity, and for our purposes, the most important element it tracks is time. This code, which is a mix of a linkable C service library, a C++ wrapper class, and a Python module, has, like all programs, its fair share of bugs.  Recently it was discovered that a bug in the time rollback (aka "GPS Week Rollover") sanity checking code scheduled for November 2038 will instead cause 1,024 to be subtracted from the October 24, 2021 week number. In other words, a lot of computers are in for a quick, sharp visit to March 2002.

 

So, check your systems now for this problem. And, if, like most of us, you're relying on someone upstream from you for the correct time, check with them to make sure they've taken care of this forthcoming trouble.

 

See more in the article....




--

W0MN EN34rb 44.08226 N 92.51265 W

Hierro candente, batir de repente

HP Laptop


--
Carey Fisher


--
73, Carey, WB4HXE


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

 

Condolences.

73 Phil GM3ZZA

On 19 Oct 2021 20:18, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@...> wrote:


On 2021-10-19 2:10 PM, Keith Kaiser wrote:
> The result of our work was nothing happened in 2000.

Except that my father passed away the morning of January 1, 2000!
He wasn't Y2K compatible and no amount of programming was going to
fix that.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-10-19 2:10 PM, Keith Kaiser wrote:
> Nothing will happen now that’s true.
> The reason nothing happened in 2000 is because programmers like me started working on this issue even before 1998 to make sure of it.
>
> It wasn’t so much a hoax that something would blow in 2000, many things might have, but thousands of programmers made sure it didn’t. The result of our work was nothing happened in 2000.
>
> Keith, WA0̷TJT
>
>






--
73 Phil GM3ZZA


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

 

They might but will sysadmins update the gpsd daemons.

73 Phil GM3ZZA

On 19 Oct 2021 20:50, Gilbert Baron <w0mn00@...> wrote:

Right you are and that was my real point. Programmers will attend to it.

 

Outlook Laptop Gil W0MN

Hierro candente, batir de repente

44.08226N 92.51265W EN34rb

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Keith Kaiser
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 13:11
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th

 

Nothing will happen now that’s true.

The reason nothing happened in 2000 is because programmers like me started working on this issue even before 1998 to make sure of it.

 

It wasn’t so much a hoax that something would blow in 2000, many things might have, but thousands of programmers made sure it didn’t. The result of our work was nothing happened in 2000. 

 

Keith, WA0̷TJT

 

 


--

W0MN EN34rb 44.08226 N 92.51265 W

Hierro candente, batir de repente

HP Laptop


--
73 Phil GM3ZZA


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

William Smith
 

Hi Bill,

Ah, I misunderstood, but now I get it.  If even a majority of pool servers do The Time Warp, they'll be removed from the pool within 20 minutes, and people using the pool will only see brief periods of chaos, if that.

Neat, thanks for the clarification!

73, Willie N1JBJ

On Oct 19, 2021, at 5:38 PM, Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:

Hi Willie,

servers that contribute to the pool are remotely monitored for time accuracy, stability, and availability. This is a continuous cycle, servers are checked roughly every 20 minutes, are scored, and those that don't stay above 10.0 are bounced from the pools they are in until they improve. Here's the monitoring page for my stratum 1 server:


It would not be offered to pool subscribers if it dropped below 10.0 score. As you can see, it is much harder to regain a score than it is to loose it, hysteresis is built into the scoring algorithm. Since pool servers are rotated regularly, an outlier will not cause a subscriber to get bad time information, assuming they subscribe to 3 or 4 servers from the pool they use.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 19/10/2021 22:25, William Smith wrote:
I'm not convinced that ntp.org enforces software version requirements when you add a server to the pool.  I don't even know if they can tell if you are using GPSD or not.

https://www.pool.ntp.org/en/join.html and https://www.pool.ntp.org/join/configuration.html have ntpd as a recommendation, but don't seem to have any requirements.  They have a mailing list and an RSS feed, but I can't easily access them, so I'll let TPTB deal with it.

I'd _hope_ that if your clock suddenly jumped 1024 weeks into the past that you'd get ignored, but I guess we'll know this weekend.  It may depend on what percent of pool servers do the time warp.  🤷‍♂️

Fortunately, the initial bug report is a couple of months old, and only effects a limited number of releases, so while this is the first _I've_ heard of it, it's not a new problem, as the ZDNet article leads us to believe.

73, Willie N1JBJ


On Oct 19, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

that's easy, use the server pools in the pool.ntp.org organization, they are tested and checked for accuracy, stability, and availability before being placed in the pools.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 19/10/2021 21:37, Philip Rose via groups.io wrote:

But how do I know that the NTP servers I attach my Meinberg NTP clients to have been updated to gpsd 3.23? I’ll just have to check my laptop and shack PC before operating. If I get the wrong date from them then after I repair the date will it get changed again by the next NTP  update?

 

73 Phil GM3ZZA.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19 October 2021 18:27
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #AllOperatingSystems #Timesync

 

Has been fixed in gpsd 3.23 and apparently bug is not present in 3.19 and earlier. 

 

 

 

Mike W9MDB 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 10:10:29 AM CDT, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:

 

 

 
WSJT users typically utilize frequent time synchronization via upstream time servers on the web.  According to this article, "a nasty bug's been uncovered in GPSD that's going to pop up on October 24, 2021. If left unpatched, it's going to switch your time to some time in March 2012, and your system will crash."
 
NTP determines what time it is by synchronizing NTP servers with atomic clocks.  NTP is based on a hierarchy of levels, where each level is assigned a number called the stratum. Stratum 1 (primary) servers at the lowest level are directly synchronized to national time services via satellite, radio, or modem. Stratum 2 (secondary) servers are synchronized to stratum 1 servers and so on. Usually, NTP clients and servers connect to Stratum 2 servers.
 
How do stratum 1 servers sync up with clocks? Many of them use GPSD. This service daemon monitors one or more GPSes for location, course, velocity, and for our purposes, the most important element it tracks is time. This code, which is a mix of a linkable C service library, a C++ wrapper class, and a Python module, has, like all programs, its fair share of bugs.  Recently it was discovered that a bug in the time rollback (aka "GPS Week Rollover") sanity checking code scheduled for November 2038 will instead cause 1,024 to be subtracted from the October 24, 2021 week number. In other words, a lot of computers are in for a quick, sharp visit to March 2002.
 
So, check your systems now for this problem. And, if, like most of us, you're relying on someone upstream from you for the correct time, check with them to make sure they've taken care of this forthcoming trouble.
 
See more in the article....



 


--
73 Phil GM3ZZA







locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

 

Thanks Bill,

What I take from that is that about 20 minutes after midnight on Saturday non-compliant servers will be kicked off the NTP server list. I shall sleep peacefully Saturday night.

73 Phil GM3ZZA


On 19 Oct 2021 22:38, Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:
Hi Willie,

servers that contribute to the pool are remotely monitored for time accuracy, stability, and availability. This is a continuous cycle, servers are checked roughly every 20 minutes, are scored, and those that don't stay above 10.0 are bounced from the pools they are in until they improve. Here's the monitoring page for my stratum 1 server:


It would not be offered to pool subscribers if it dropped below 10.0 score. As you can see, it is much harder to regain a score than it is to loose it, hysteresis is built into the scoring algorithm. Since pool servers are rotated regularly, an outlier will not cause a subscriber to get bad time information, assuming they subscribe to 3 or 4 servers from the pool they use.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 19/10/2021 22:25, William Smith wrote:
I'm not convinced that ntp.org enforces software version requirements when you add a server to the pool.  I don't even know if they can tell if you are using GPSD or not.

https://www.pool.ntp.org/en/join.html and https://www.pool.ntp.org/join/configuration.html have ntpd as a recommendation, but don't seem to have any requirements.  They have a mailing list and an RSS feed, but I can't easily access them, so I'll let TPTB deal with it.

I'd _hope_ that if your clock suddenly jumped 1024 weeks into the past that you'd get ignored, but I guess we'll know this weekend.  It may depend on what percent of pool servers do the time warp.  🤷‍♂️

Fortunately, the initial bug report is a couple of months old, and only effects a limited number of releases, so while this is the first _I've_ heard of it, it's not a new problem, as the ZDNet article leads us to believe.

73, Willie N1JBJ


On Oct 19, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

that's easy, use the server pools in the pool.ntp.org organization, they are tested and checked for accuracy, stability, and availability before being placed in the pools.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 19/10/2021 21:37, Philip Rose via groups.io wrote:

But how do I know that the NTP servers I attach my Meinberg NTP clients to have been updated to gpsd 3.23? I’ll just have to check my laptop and shack PC before operating. If I get the wrong date from them then after I repair the date will it get changed again by the next NTP  update?

 

73 Phil GM3ZZA.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19 October 2021 18:27
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #AllOperatingSystems #Timesync

 

Has been fixed in gpsd 3.23 and apparently bug is not present in 3.19 and earlier. 

 

 

 

Mike W9MDB 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 10:10:29 AM CDT, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:

 

 

 
WSJT users typically utilize frequent time synchronization via upstream time servers on the web.  According to this article, "a nasty bug's been uncovered in GPSD that's going to pop up on October 24, 2021. If left unpatched, it's going to switch your time to some time in March 2012, and your system will crash."
 
NTP determines what time it is by synchronizing NTP servers with atomic clocks.  NTP is based on a hierarchy of levels, where each level is assigned a number called the stratum. Stratum 1 (primary) servers at the lowest level are directly synchronized to national time services via satellite, radio, or modem. Stratum 2 (secondary) servers are synchronized to stratum 1 servers and so on. Usually, NTP clients and servers connect to Stratum 2 servers.
 
How do stratum 1 servers sync up with clocks? Many of them use GPSD. This service daemon monitors one or more GPSes for location, course, velocity, and for our purposes, the most important element it tracks is time. This code, which is a mix of a linkable C service library, a C++ wrapper class, and a Python module, has, like all programs, its fair share of bugs.  Recently it was discovered that a bug in the time rollback (aka "GPS Week Rollover") sanity checking code scheduled for November 2038 will instead cause 1,024 to be subtracted from the October 24, 2021 week number. In other words, a lot of computers are in for a quick, sharp visit to March 2002.
 
So, check your systems now for this problem. And, if, like most of us, you're relying on someone upstream from you for the correct time, check with them to make sure they've taken care of this forthcoming trouble.
 
See more in the article....



 


--
73 Phil GM3ZZA




--
73 Phil GM3ZZA


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

Bill Somerville
 

Hi Willie,

servers that contribute to the pool are remotely monitored for time accuracy, stability, and availability. This is a continuous cycle, servers are checked roughly every 20 minutes, are scored, and those that don't stay above 10.0 are bounced from the pools they are in until they improve. Here's the monitoring page for my stratum 1 server:


It would not be offered to pool subscribers if it dropped below 10.0 score. As you can see, it is much harder to regain a score than it is to loose it, hysteresis is built into the scoring algorithm. Since pool servers are rotated regularly, an outlier will not cause a subscriber to get bad time information, assuming they subscribe to 3 or 4 servers from the pool they use.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 19/10/2021 22:25, William Smith wrote:
I'm not convinced that ntp.org enforces software version requirements when you add a server to the pool.  I don't even know if they can tell if you are using GPSD or not.

https://www.pool.ntp.org/en/join.html and https://www.pool.ntp.org/join/configuration.html have ntpd as a recommendation, but don't seem to have any requirements.  They have a mailing list and an RSS feed, but I can't easily access them, so I'll let TPTB deal with it.

I'd _hope_ that if your clock suddenly jumped 1024 weeks into the past that you'd get ignored, but I guess we'll know this weekend.  It may depend on what percent of pool servers do the time warp.  🤷‍♂️

Fortunately, the initial bug report is a couple of months old, and only effects a limited number of releases, so while this is the first _I've_ heard of it, it's not a new problem, as the ZDNet article leads us to believe.

73, Willie N1JBJ


On Oct 19, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

that's easy, use the server pools in the pool.ntp.org organization, they are tested and checked for accuracy, stability, and availability before being placed in the pools.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 19/10/2021 21:37, Philip Rose via groups.io wrote:

But how do I know that the NTP servers I attach my Meinberg NTP clients to have been updated to gpsd 3.23? I’ll just have to check my laptop and shack PC before operating. If I get the wrong date from them then after I repair the date will it get changed again by the next NTP  update?

 

73 Phil GM3ZZA.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19 October 2021 18:27
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #AllOperatingSystems #Timesync

 

Has been fixed in gpsd 3.23 and apparently bug is not present in 3.19 and earlier. 

 

 

 

Mike W9MDB 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 10:10:29 AM CDT, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:

 

 

 
WSJT users typically utilize frequent time synchronization via upstream time servers on the web.  According to this article, "a nasty bug's been uncovered in GPSD that's going to pop up on October 24, 2021. If left unpatched, it's going to switch your time to some time in March 2012, and your system will crash."
 
NTP determines what time it is by synchronizing NTP servers with atomic clocks.  NTP is based on a hierarchy of levels, where each level is assigned a number called the stratum. Stratum 1 (primary) servers at the lowest level are directly synchronized to national time services via satellite, radio, or modem. Stratum 2 (secondary) servers are synchronized to stratum 1 servers and so on. Usually, NTP clients and servers connect to Stratum 2 servers.
 
How do stratum 1 servers sync up with clocks? Many of them use GPSD. This service daemon monitors one or more GPSes for location, course, velocity, and for our purposes, the most important element it tracks is time. This code, which is a mix of a linkable C service library, a C++ wrapper class, and a Python module, has, like all programs, its fair share of bugs.  Recently it was discovered that a bug in the time rollback (aka "GPS Week Rollover") sanity checking code scheduled for November 2038 will instead cause 1,024 to be subtracted from the October 24, 2021 week number. In other words, a lot of computers are in for a quick, sharp visit to March 2002.
 
So, check your systems now for this problem. And, if, like most of us, you're relying on someone upstream from you for the correct time, check with them to make sure they've taken care of this forthcoming trouble.
 
See more in the article....



 


--
73 Phil GM3ZZA



locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

William Smith
 

I'm not convinced that ntp.org enforces software version requirements when you add a server to the pool.  I don't even know if they can tell if you are using GPSD or not.

https://www.pool.ntp.org/en/join.html and https://www.pool.ntp.org/join/configuration.html have ntpd as a recommendation, but don't seem to have any requirements.  They have a mailing list and an RSS feed, but I can't easily access them, so I'll let TPTB deal with it.

I'd _hope_ that if your clock suddenly jumped 1024 weeks into the past that you'd get ignored, but I guess we'll know this weekend.  It may depend on what percent of pool servers do the time warp.  🤷‍♂️

Fortunately, the initial bug report is a couple of months old, and only effects a limited number of releases, so while this is the first _I've_ heard of it, it's not a new problem, as the ZDNet article leads us to believe.

73, Willie N1JBJ


On Oct 19, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Bill Somerville <g4wjs@...> wrote:

Hi Phil,

that's easy, use the server pools in the pool.ntp.org organization, they are tested and checked for accuracy, stability, and availability before being placed in the pools.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 19/10/2021 21:37, Philip Rose via groups.io wrote:

But how do I know that the NTP servers I attach my Meinberg NTP clients to have been updated to gpsd 3.23? I’ll just have to check my laptop and shack PC before operating. If I get the wrong date from them then after I repair the date will it get changed again by the next NTP  update?

 

73 Phil GM3ZZA.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19 October 2021 18:27
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #AllOperatingSystems #Timesync

 

Has been fixed in gpsd 3.23 and apparently bug is not present in 3.19 and earlier. 

 

 

 

Mike W9MDB 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 10:10:29 AM CDT, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:

 

 

 
WSJT users typically utilize frequent time synchronization via upstream time servers on the web.  According to this article, "a nasty bug's been uncovered in GPSD that's going to pop up on October 24, 2021. If left unpatched, it's going to switch your time to some time in March 2012, and your system will crash."
 
NTP determines what time it is by synchronizing NTP servers with atomic clocks.  NTP is based on a hierarchy of levels, where each level is assigned a number called the stratum. Stratum 1 (primary) servers at the lowest level are directly synchronized to national time services via satellite, radio, or modem. Stratum 2 (secondary) servers are synchronized to stratum 1 servers and so on. Usually, NTP clients and servers connect to Stratum 2 servers.
 
How do stratum 1 servers sync up with clocks? Many of them use GPSD. This service daemon monitors one or more GPSes for location, course, velocity, and for our purposes, the most important element it tracks is time. This code, which is a mix of a linkable C service library, a C++ wrapper class, and a Python module, has, like all programs, its fair share of bugs.  Recently it was discovered that a bug in the time rollback (aka "GPS Week Rollover") sanity checking code scheduled for November 2038 will instead cause 1,024 to be subtracted from the October 24, 2021 week number. In other words, a lot of computers are in for a quick, sharp visit to March 2002.
 
So, check your systems now for this problem. And, if, like most of us, you're relying on someone upstream from you for the correct time, check with them to make sure they've taken care of this forthcoming trouble.
 
See more in the article....



 


--
73 Phil GM3ZZA







locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2021-10-19 2:10 PM, Keith Kaiser wrote:
The result of our work was nothing happened in 2000.
Except that my father passed away the morning of January 1, 2000!
He wasn't Y2K compatible and no amount of programming was going to
fix that.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-10-19 2:10 PM, Keith Kaiser wrote:
Nothing will happen now that’s true.
The reason nothing happened in 2000 is because programmers like me started working on this issue even before 1998 to make sure of it.
It wasn’t so much a hoax that something would blow in 2000, many things might have, but thousands of programmers made sure it didn’t. The result of our work was nothing happened in 2000.
Keith, WA0̷TJT


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

Gilbert Baron
 

Right you are and that was my real point. Programmers will attend to it.

 

Outlook Laptop Gil W0MN

Hierro candente, batir de repente

44.08226N 92.51265W EN34rb

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Keith Kaiser
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 13:11
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th

 

Nothing will happen now that’s true.

The reason nothing happened in 2000 is because programmers like me started working on this issue even before 1998 to make sure of it.

 

It wasn’t so much a hoax that something would blow in 2000, many things might have, but thousands of programmers made sure it didn’t. The result of our work was nothing happened in 2000. 

 

Keith, WA0̷TJT

 

 


--

W0MN EN34rb 44.08226 N 92.51265 W

Hierro candente, batir de repente

HP Laptop


locked Re: Different J65 instances on v2.5.0 #JT65

Amos Sobel 4X4MF
 

Thank you Bill

 

Problem solved

 

Amos 4X4MF

 

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Somerville
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 10:46 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Different J65 instances on v2.5.0 #JT65

 

On 19/10/2021 18:43, Amos Sobel 4X4MF wrote:

WSJT-X v2.5.0 does show 3 different screens on 4 different instances of J65. See 2 below. Which one is correct? How do I get the  right form? Decode is also different.
Amos 4X4MF

Hi Amos,

The "Settings->General->Enable VHF and submode features" enables the wider mode options where available. As you are tuning to 144.120 MHz I guess you are looking for EME contacts, unless you are planning to have a pileup I suspect you also want to check the "Settings->General->Single decode" option.

https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-2.5.0.html#VHF_SETUP

and

https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-2.5.0.html#_tips_for_eme

may be helpful.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

Bill Somerville
 

Hi Phil,

that's easy, use the server pools in the pool.ntp.org organization, they are tested and checked for accuracy, stability, and availability before being placed in the pools.

73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 19/10/2021 21:37, Philip Rose via groups.io wrote:

But how do I know that the NTP servers I attach my Meinberg NTP clients to have been updated to gpsd 3.23? I’ll just have to check my laptop and shack PC before operating. If I get the wrong date from them then after I repair the date will it get changed again by the next NTP  update?

 

73 Phil GM3ZZA.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19 October 2021 18:27
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #AllOperatingSystems #Timesync

 

Has been fixed in gpsd 3.23 and apparently bug is not present in 3.19 and earlier. 

 

 

 

Mike W9MDB 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 10:10:29 AM CDT, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:

 

 

Info from https://www.zdnet.com/article/thanks-to-a-nasty-gpsd-bug-real-life-time-travel-trouble-arrives-this-weekend/

 

WSJT users typically utilize frequent time synchronization via upstream time servers on the web.  According to this article, "a nasty bug's been uncovered in GPSD that's going to pop up on October 24, 2021. If left unpatched, it's going to switch your time to some time in March 2012, and your system will crash."

 

NTP determines what time it is by synchronizing NTP servers with atomic clocks.  NTP is based on a hierarchy of levels, where each level is assigned a number called the stratum. Stratum 1 (primary) servers at the lowest level are directly synchronized to national time services via satellite, radio, or modem. Stratum 2 (secondary) servers are synchronized to stratum 1 servers and so on. Usually, NTP clients and servers connect to Stratum 2 servers.

 

How do stratum 1 servers sync up with clocks? Many of them use GPSD. This service daemon monitors one or more GPSes for location, course, velocity, and for our purposes, the most important element it tracks is time. This code, which is a mix of a linkable C service library, a C++ wrapper class, and a Python module, has, like all programs, its fair share of bugs.  Recently it was discovered that a bug in the time rollback (aka "GPS Week Rollover") sanity checking code scheduled for November 2038 will instead cause 1,024 to be subtracted from the October 24, 2021 week number. In other words, a lot of computers are in for a quick, sharp visit to March 2002.

 

So, check your systems now for this problem. And, if, like most of us, you're relying on someone upstream from you for the correct time, check with them to make sure they've taken care of this forthcoming trouble.

 

See more in the article....



 


--
73 Phil GM3ZZA



locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

 

But how do I know that the NTP servers I attach my Meinberg NTP clients to have been updated to gpsd 3.23? I’ll just have to check my laptop and shack PC before operating. If I get the wrong date from them then after I repair the date will it get changed again by the next NTP  update?

 

73 Phil GM3ZZA.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Michael Black via groups.io
Sent: 19 October 2021 18:27
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #AllOperatingSystems #Timesync

 

Has been fixed in gpsd 3.23 and apparently bug is not present in 3.19 and earlier. 

 

 

 

Mike W9MDB 

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021, 10:10:29 AM CDT, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:

 

 

Info from https://www.zdnet.com/article/thanks-to-a-nasty-gpsd-bug-real-life-time-travel-trouble-arrives-this-weekend/

 

WSJT users typically utilize frequent time synchronization via upstream time servers on the web.  According to this article, "a nasty bug's been uncovered in GPSD that's going to pop up on October 24, 2021. If left unpatched, it's going to switch your time to some time in March 2012, and your system will crash."

 

NTP determines what time it is by synchronizing NTP servers with atomic clocks.  NTP is based on a hierarchy of levels, where each level is assigned a number called the stratum. Stratum 1 (primary) servers at the lowest level are directly synchronized to national time services via satellite, radio, or modem. Stratum 2 (secondary) servers are synchronized to stratum 1 servers and so on. Usually, NTP clients and servers connect to Stratum 2 servers.

 

How do stratum 1 servers sync up with clocks? Many of them use GPSD. This service daemon monitors one or more GPSes for location, course, velocity, and for our purposes, the most important element it tracks is time. This code, which is a mix of a linkable C service library, a C++ wrapper class, and a Python module, has, like all programs, its fair share of bugs.  Recently it was discovered that a bug in the time rollback (aka "GPS Week Rollover") sanity checking code scheduled for November 2038 will instead cause 1,024 to be subtracted from the October 24, 2021 week number. In other words, a lot of computers are in for a quick, sharp visit to March 2002.

 

So, check your systems now for this problem. And, if, like most of us, you're relying on someone upstream from you for the correct time, check with them to make sure they've taken care of this forthcoming trouble.

 

See more in the article....



 


--
73 Phil GM3ZZA


locked Re: Different J65 instances on v2.5.0 #JT65

Bill Somerville
 

On 19/10/2021 18:43, Amos Sobel 4X4MF wrote:
WSJT-X v2.5.0 does show 3 different screens on 4 different instances of J65. See 2 below. Which one is correct? How do I get the  right form? Decode is also different.
Amos 4X4MF

Hi Amos,

The "Settings->General->Enable VHF and submode features" enables the wider mode options where available. As you are tuning to 144.120 MHz I guess you are looking for EME contacts, unless you are planning to have a pileup I suspect you also want to check the "Settings->General->Single decode" option.

https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-2.5.0.html#VHF_SETUP

and

https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-2.5.0.html#_tips_for_eme

may be helpful.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


locked Re: GPS bug may cause PC time to revert to March 2002 on Oct 24th #Timesync #Timesync

Roger
 

This is not a hoax as one member has claimed. Most members just need to be aware of this and keep an eye on their systems over the weekend.

I'm certain there will be compromised versions of GPSD out there.

If anyone does have a problem with this and is unsure how to resolve this I'm sure there is sufficient technical knowledge amongst to advise you.

73
Roger
G4HZA
moderator

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