Date   

locked Re: S/N reporting on different modes #modes #Icom

Tom V. Segalstad
 

Some comparisons for FT8 reports last Thursday evening (8th of July) on 50 MHz.

Here using 1 kW output power to a 7 element Yagi antenna, and a GaAsFET LNA RX preamplifier.

Listed below are the differences in dB S/N reports for some DX QSOs; positive numbers meaning I received stronger S/N reports than the DX station, and negative numbers meaning I received lower S/N reports, than given by me.

 

OD5KU        -18 dB

HI3MRV      -12 dB

HI8T             -11 dB

HI8RD                      -4 dB

4Z1TL                     +4 dB

4X1TI                     -11 dB

WP4G                     -18 dB

WP3R                       -9 dB

KP4EIT        -19 dB

CO7MS           0 dB

 

I can’t say what is the reason for these fairly large differences in S/N reports for DX QSOs.

But we see that the reports from Central America are all negative.

May be due to QRM from the many stations in USA?

But we in Europe also have many stations in Europe being copied at the same time.

So we wouldn’t think that the QRM level would be much different?

Reports for contacts within Europe were in most QSOs about equal, differing +/- 1 to 2 dB, and in rare cases up to +/- 5dB.

 

73 from Tom, LA4LN (and LC1V in contests)

 

 

Fra: Bill Somerville
Sendt: tirsdag 13. juli 2021 kl. 11.19
Til: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Emne: Re: [WSJTX] S/N reporting on different modes #modes #ic-7600 #modes

 

On 13/07/2021 09:00, Mike GM3PPE wrote:
> I have been very active on 6 meters this summer and have noticed great
> variability in S/N reports sent and received. For example I worked a
> YV5 station twice in the same week. On the first occasion he sent -18
> and received -05 from me, a difference of 13dB. Two days later he sent
> -15 but was +11 with me, a difference of 26dB. My setup was the same,
> and assuming his setup was unchanged, why the comparative difference?
>
> This effect has been seen on numerous occasions, and by other stations
> in a similar rural location. Are more details on exactly how the S/N
> ratio is calculated available? I want to understand how the background
> noise power is estimated, without having to read the source code!
>
> Mike GM3PPE

Hi Mike,

the noise component consists of local noise plus various other noises
via one or more propagation paths from many directions, with Sporadic E
propagation, which you are almost certainly receiving the YV5 station,
the path loss is highly variable, both over the short term of a few
seconds or minutes and from day to day. It is not reasonable to expect
the noise and signal components to remain in the same ratio during
different QSOs with the same station with such variable propagation
dynamics.

It is interesting that you cite a YV station for your example, I have
noticed that stations in Venezuela on 6m, among some others, often have
some difficulty copying my signals when they are quite strong with me.
My conclusion is that either they are running very high power or they
suffer considerable levels of local QRN, my best guess is the latter.
Perhaps there are YV stations on this list that might know about any
specific issues with DX reception on 6m in their country?

73
Bill
G4WJS.

 


--
Tom (LA4LN)


locked Re: S/N reporting on different modes #modes #Icom

Jim Brown
 

On 7/13/2021 1:00 AM, Mike GM3PPE wrote:
This effect has been seen on numerous occasions, and by other stations in a similar rural location. Are more details on exactly how the S/N ratio is calculated available?
It is common for 6M propagation to be wildly variable over rather short periods of time. Last evening, I worked an HL2 station who I could decode for about 5 minutes, with the report (S/N) beginning around -22, peaking around -6, fading a minute or two later. On the next pass after our QSO completed, he was around -20, and on his next TX, he was gone.

73, Jim K9YC (CM87, S of San Francisco)


locked Re: S/N reporting on different modes #modes #Icom

Bill Somerville
 

On 13/07/2021 09:00, Mike GM3PPE wrote:
I have been very active on 6 meters this summer and have noticed great variability in S/N reports sent and received. For example I worked a YV5 station twice in the same week. On the first occasion he sent -18 and received -05 from me, a difference of 13dB. Two days later he sent -15 but was +11 with me, a difference of 26dB. My setup was the same, and assuming his setup was unchanged, why the comparative difference?

This effect has been seen on numerous occasions, and by other stations in a similar rural location. Are more details on exactly how the S/N ratio is calculated available? I want to understand how the background noise power is estimated, without having to read the source code!

Mike GM3PPE
Hi Mike,

the noise component consists of local noise plus various other noises via one or more propagation paths from many directions, with Sporadic E propagation, which you are almost certainly receiving the YV5 station, the path loss is highly variable, both over the short term of a few seconds or minutes and from day to day. It is not reasonable to expect the noise and signal components to remain in the same ratio during different QSOs with the same station with such variable propagation dynamics.

It is interesting that you cite a YV station for your example, I have noticed that stations in Venezuela on 6m, among some others, often have some difficulty copying my signals when they are quite strong with me. My conclusion is that either they are running very high power or they suffer considerable levels of local QRN, my best guess is the latter. Perhaps there are YV stations on this list that might know about any specific issues with DX reception on 6m in their country?

73
Bill
G4WJS.


locked Re: S/N reporting on different modes #modes #Icom

Bill Somerville
 

On 13/07/2021 01:59, Bruce KX4AZ wrote:
On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 05:37 AM, Bill Somerville wrote:

.. The noise estimation algorithms in WSJT-X reflect
both the expected band occupancy and the evolution of noise estimatiin the software. ...

This is something I have always wondered about - does the noise estimation algorithm attempt to use an area of the audio spectrum where no signals were decoded?  But I guess a crowded band would make that nearly impossible.  In any event, it would be fascinating to hear more details about how the noise power is estimated to arrive at the S/N ratios.

Hi Bruce,

I believe we use variations on two basic strategies:-

  1. measure the noise power in unused symbol tone bins and interpolate to a 2500 Hz bandwidth noise power,
  2. measure the noise power in a 2500 Hz bandwidth by using a baseline fitting algorithm.

(1) is relatively straightforward as we are already measuring signal power in all symbol tone bins as part of decoding, but is liable to inaccuracies when there are overlapping signals or other QRM.

(2) is a little more computationally complex but will perform well on a busy sub-band with many signals that may overlap, but requires that the receiver pass band is at least 2500 Hz wide.

You can do a simple experiment to determine which type is being used by reducing your receiver pass band while decoding a signal. Mode decoders that use (1) will give reasonably consistent SNR numbers so long as the wanted signal is within the restricted pass band, modes that use (2) will give greatly exaggerated SNR numbers as the receiver pass band is reduced below 2500 Hz.

73
Bill
G4WJS.


locked Re: S/N reporting on different modes #modes #Icom

Mike GM3PPE
 

I have been very active on 6 meters this summer and have noticed great variability in S/N reports sent and received. For example I worked a YV5 station twice in the same week. On the first occasion he sent -18 and received -05 from me, a difference of 13dB. Two days later he sent -15 but was +11 with me, a difference of 26dB. My setup was the same, and assuming his setup was unchanged, why the comparative difference?

This effect has been seen on numerous occasions, and by other stations in a similar rural location. Are more details on exactly how the S/N ratio is calculated available? I want to understand how the background noise power is estimated, without having to read the source code!

Mike GM3PPE


locked Enable TX #IssueReport

eme@...
 

Hi All,
Problem WSJT-X:
When calling a station and I´m in Enable TX and the station I call give the OOO to somone else, my Enable TX gos off!
Only when text include the OOO. If called station give me OOO Enable TX still go as normal.
--
SM5DIC Gus


locked Re: When Callsign/8 portable is used the Grid Locator is not sent in a CQ

Michael Black
 

Good to know...thanks Laurie..

Mike W9MDB




On Monday, July 12, 2021, 06:15:54 PM CDT, HamApps Support (VK3AMA) <vk3ama.ham.apps@...> wrote:


On 13/07/2021 12:55 am, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
if the grid matches too but I don't think JTAlert or such does that.

Mike W9MDB

Not true.

JTAlert considers the on-air grid when determining if a station is worked B4 provided the user hasn't turned on "Ignore Grid" option for the B4 checking. Considering the on-air grid allows JTAlert to accurately alert the B4 status for roving/portable stations who change grids. It will even do this within a single JTAlert session, no need for a restart.

de Laurie VK3AMA






locked Re: S/N reporting on different modes #modes #Icom

Bruce KX4AZ
 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 05:37 AM, Bill Somerville wrote:

.. The noise estimation algorithms in WSJT-X reflect
both the expected band occupancy and the evolution of noise estimatiin the software. ...

This is something I have always wondered about - does the noise estimation algorithm attempt to use an area of the audio spectrum where no signals were decoded?  But I guess a crowded band would make that nearly impossible.  In any event, it would be fascinating to hear more details about how the noise power is estimated to arrive at the S/N ratios.


locked Re: #WSJTX_config #WSJTX_config

Bill Somerville
 

On 13/07/2021 00:51, Wayne Schuler wrote:
I just installed wsjt_x on a new computer and the program doesn't seem to see the old stations worked file.
I suspect i did not put the file where the program is looking for it as the new CQ's and worked B4 are all the same color.
Can you tell me where the wsjtx_log.adif file belongs?
I've re-read the adif file on the colors page, but nothing changes.
Wayne, AI9Q
Hi Wayne,

the WSJT-X ADIF log file goes in the WSJT-X log files directory ("Menu->File->Open log directory"). On MS Windows take care not to inadvertently change the file name or extension, by default Windows hides file extensions (.adi in this case) and it is all too easy to end up with duplicate extensions like wsjtx_log.adi.adi .

73
Bill
G4WJS.


locked #WSJTX_config #WSJTX_config

Wayne Schuler
 

I just installed wsjt_x on a new computer and the program doesn't seem to see the old stations worked file.
I suspect i did not put the file where the program is looking for it as the new CQ's and worked B4 are all the same color.
Can you tell me where the wsjtx_log.adif file belongs?  
I've re-read the adif file on the colors page, but nothing changes.
Wayne, AI9Q


locked Re: When Callsign/8 portable is used the Grid Locator is not sent in a CQ

JTAlert Support (VK3AMA)
 

On 13/07/2021 12:55 am, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
if the grid matches too but I don't think JTAlert or such does that.

Mike W9MDB

Not true.

JTAlert considers the on-air grid when determining if a station is worked B4 provided the user hasn't turned on "Ignore Grid" option for the B4 checking. Considering the on-air grid allows JTAlert to accurately alert the B4 status for roving/portable stations who change grids. It will even do this within a single JTAlert session, no need for a restart.

de Laurie VK3AMA


locked Re: When Callsign/8 portable is used the Grid Locator is not sent in a CQ

Michael Black
 

You're right about the logging...

You still end up with people not wanting to QSO with you as you can show up as B4....

Not sure how JTAlert treats /P and /M -- would be nice if it looked at grid -- I know it looks at QRZ if you haven't worked them b4 otherwise will pull it from your log.


Mike W9MDB




On Monday, July 12, 2021, 01:08:01 PM CDT, Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:


On 7/12/2021 6:18 AM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
> The problem with that solution is the users will be logging the wrong
> state.  You'll get the LOTW credit but your log (most likely) won't
> reflect the award.
> Alternate call sign in TQSL with a QRZ entry to match is the way to do
> it all.

That is simply not true if you are using competent logging software in conjunction with WSJTX.  JTAlert interacts quite nicely with several good logging
programs.


73, Jim K9YC





locked WSJT-X and Omni-Rig: Failed to start OmniRig COM server #wsjt-x-crashing

Tom Blahovici
 

I am the author of Win4IcomSuite and have started getting reports of WSJT failing to start the Omni-rig COM server.
To reproduce:
Reboot your computer and make sure there are no other applications using omni-rig.
Use Omni-rig definition for your Icom radio;. Start WSJT.  You receive the above error.
Run WSJT as Administrator and it works.

All other applications using Omni-rig work without putting them in administrator mode.

Details, version 2.4.0 (happens on previous version as well).
Windows 10, version 19041.1083
73 Tom va2fsq


locked Re: #FT1000MPM5Field

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

On 2021-07-12 1:59 PM, Pa3gcu wrote:

I used the user mode solution,
menu 8.6
mode pkt
disp offset 0
rx pll 1500
rx car 453.450
tx pll 1500
tx car 453.450
rtty offset 0
The "Default User Function Settings" for USB applied are slightly
different as shown on page 110 of the Mark-V FT-1000MP and Mark-V
FT-1000MP Field Operating Manuals. The settings for the Easy Set
Mode options are shown on page 110. One would probably be best
served by applying the default USB settings to PKT(LSB) for WSJTX
operation.

Note: RX/TX PLL define the center of the TX/RX filter and TX/RX
Carrier set the "carrier point" on the filter skirt.

easy set off
Off selects the custom configuration not one of the standard FAX,
SSTV or PSK-31 profiles.


73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-07-12 1:59 PM, Pa3gcu wrote:
HI All.
I stated in my first email over de FT1000KP M5 Field that i would supply my findings, well here we go.
First of all my thanks to Joe W4TV for his explanation over the FT1000 history, secondly to LA3PU Svein
who sent me his configuration which i belive origanated from http://lea.hamradio.si, anyway thanks again.
I used the user mode solution,
menu 8.6
mode           pkt
disp offset    0
rx pll             1500
rx car            453.450
tx pll             1500
tx car            453.450
rtty offset      0
easy set off
  I use the packet connector with my micoroham usb3 and its supplyed cable.
Once again thanks to all who answered.
Have a nice day 73 Richard PA3GCU.
Joe Subich, W4TV schreef op 9 jul '21:

All Yaesu transceivers prior to the FT-2000 lack support for PKT-U.
In those that have a PKT-U mode, PKT-U is actually PKT-FM.

In general, to do *any* AFSK mode in USB, one needs to feed audio
to the mic, patch or DVS-2 input, select USB and *disable* the
speech processor (compressor).

Late model FT-1000MP, the FT-1000MP MK V and FT-1000MP MKV Field
also have a USER DEFINED MODE.  For your Field, the User Defined
Mode is described on pages 80 and 105 of the Operating Manual
(Menu 8-6, uSEr-SEt).  You can select Easy Set SSTv-U if you do
not feel comfortable creating your own custom configuration.

Note: to employ the "User Defined Mode" you will need to configure
WSJTX for MODE=None and activate the (user) mode by pressing the
PKT button and holding it for more than one second as "User" mode
can not be selected by computer control (CAT).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-07-09 10:24 AM, Pa3gcu wrote:

Hi All.

If there is someone out there using this radio with wsjt-x could you please drop me a personal email.
If and when i can get the radio to transmit tones i will post the solution used.

Regards Richard PA3GCU. 73.


locked Did my 100D just die? #ApacheLabs

 

Yesterday we had thunder storms in the morning. In the afternoon when I turned on my ANAN 100D, I found this:

Graphical user interface

Description automatically generated

 

Antenna attached.  Database reset.  With the old database I could trigger TUNE and get power out.  But no indication of a signal.  This is all I get.  I have an old Yaesu FT-950 that works.  I use Alpha-Delta co-ax switches for antenna switching so I can share antenna’s.  The FT-950 works just fine. So it’s not an antenna problem.

 

I suspect the receiver may have been damaged before I could get the system shut down, even though there were no close lightning strikes.

__________

Dan – K4SHQ

CFI/II

 

 

 

__________

Dan – K4SHQ

CFI/II

 


locked Re: #FT1000MPM5Field

Pa3gcu <pa3gcu@...>
 

HI All.

I stated in my first email over de FT1000KP M5 Field that i would  supply my findings, well here we go.

First of all my thanks to Joe W4TV for his explanation over the FT1000 history, secondly to LA3PU Svein
who sent me his configuration which i belive origanated from http://lea.hamradio.si, anyway thanks again.

I used the user mode solution,
menu 8.6
mode           pkt
disp offset    0
rx pll             1500
rx car            453.450
tx pll             1500
tx car            453.450
rtty offset      0
easy set off

 
I use the packet connector with my micoroham usb3 and its supplyed cable.
Once again thanks to all who answered.
Have a nice day 73 Richard PA3GCU.

Joe Subich, W4TV schreef op 9 jul '21:


All Yaesu transceivers prior to the FT-2000 lack support for PKT-U.
In those that have a PKT-U mode, PKT-U is actually PKT-FM.

In general, to do *any* AFSK mode in USB, one needs to feed audio
to the mic, patch or DVS-2 input, select USB and *disable* the
speech processor (compressor).

Late model FT-1000MP, the FT-1000MP MK V and FT-1000MP MKV Field
also have a USER DEFINED MODE.  For your Field, the User Defined
Mode is described on pages 80 and 105 of the Operating Manual
(Menu 8-6, uSEr-SEt).  You can select Easy Set SSTv-U if you do
not feel comfortable creating your own custom configuration.

Note: to employ the "User Defined Mode" you will need to configure
WSJTX for MODE=None and activate the (user) mode by pressing the
PKT button and holding it for more than one second as "User" mode
can not be selected by computer control (CAT).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-07-09 10:24 AM, Pa3gcu wrote:
Hi All.

If there is someone out there using this radio with wsjt-x could you please drop me a personal email.
If and when i can get the radio to transmit tones i will post the solution used.

Regards Richard PA3GCU. 73.







locked Re: When Callsign/8 portable is used the Grid Locator is not sent in a CQ

Jim Brown
 

On 7/12/2021 6:18 AM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
The problem with that solution is the users will be logging the wrong state.  You'll get the LOTW credit but your log (most likely) won't reflect the award.
Alternate call sign in TQSL with a QRZ entry to match is the way to do it all.
That is simply not true if you are using competent logging software in conjunction with WSJTX. JTAlert interacts quite nicely with several good logging programs.

73, Jim K9YC


locked Re: #FT1000MPM5Field

Kyle Washington <kw4au@...>
 

Yeah, that's not likely to happen! 😊 I will be stuck with this MP, but that's ok. The Mic jack works fine for FT8. I know that using the Packet cable is supposed to have advantages, but I think it works great as it is. Thanks for confirming that it won't work though, because I've taken a lot of time trying to troubleshoot. These settings are a bit outside of my comfort zone, so I'm just inputting what I'm told to do without much knowledge of what they do.

73,
Kyle

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2021 3:12 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] #FT1000MPM5Field

On 2021-07-10 3:22 PM, Kyle Washington wrote:
I have an early model 1000MP, and it will not go below 456.300 fo the
TX Car setting.
That is *exactly* why I specified "LATE MODEL" FT-1000MP.

The information I provided below works perfectly with *LATE MODEL* FT-1000MP as well as all FT-1000MP MKV and FT-1000MP MKV FIELD.

If you do get this working, I would love to know how you accomplish
it!
Get a FT-1000MP that allows the necessary setting of TX Car and Rx Car.

Again, as stated previously, using the mic, patch or DVS-2 inputs in USB mode is the alternative for any Yaesu transceiver that does not support PKT-USB (or User Defined Mode)

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2021-07-10 3:22 PM, Kyle Washington wrote:
I tried this with a USB sound card, and with my Signalink. I used the instructions on the Tigertronics page (http://www.tigertronics.com/ft1000mp.htm), but I couldn't get it to work. I don't find a lot of information on the Internet about how to get around this. I have an early model 1000MP, and it will not go below 456.300 fo the TX Car setting. Even on the Tigertronics page where they note this, they tell you to set it at 452.790 which is BELOW the threshold that they just told you about. I could view a waterfall, but it was shifted way to the right. About a third of it on the left side was missing, presumably because of these settings. I could not get it to transmit at all. The radio would click and do something - but it wasn't successful at sending.

If you do get this working, I would love to know how you accomplish it! I ended up buying the Heil mic cable that feeds in a 1/8" jack into the microphone jack, and I run that to the USB sound card. The input for the USB sound card comes from the External Speaker jack on the MP. I know that the Packet cable is supposed to do a better job, but so far this configuration is working for me so I haven't gone back to troubleshooting the packet issue.

73,

Kyle
KW4AU

-----Original Message-----
From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe
Subich, W4TV
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2021 2:17 PM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] #FT1000MPM5Field


All Yaesu transceivers prior to the FT-2000 lack support for PKT-U.
In those that have a PKT-U mode, PKT-U is actually PKT-FM.

In general, to do *any* AFSK mode in USB, one needs to feed audio to the mic, patch or DVS-2 input, select USB and *disable* the speech processor (compressor).

Late model FT-1000MP, the FT-1000MP MK V and FT-1000MP MKV Field also have a USER DEFINED MODE. For your Field, the User Defined Mode is described on pages 80 and 105 of the Operating Manual (Menu 8-6, uSEr-SEt). You can select Easy Set SSTv-U if you do not feel comfortable creating your own custom configuration.

Note: to employ the "User Defined Mode" you will need to configure WSJTX for MODE=None and activate the (user) mode by pressing the PKT button and holding it for more than one second as "User" mode can not be selected by computer control (CAT).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2021-07-09 10:24 AM, Pa3gcu wrote:
Hi All.

If there is someone out there using this radio with wsjt-x could you
please drop me a personal email.
If and when i can get the radio to transmit tones i will post the
solution used.

Regards Richard PA3GCU. 73.


locked Re: When Callsign/8 portable is used the Grid Locator is not sent in a CQ

Michael Black
 

Plus...if you keep using the same call without the suffix many won't work you again.

Come to think of it "worked B4" for a /P or /M should only be if the grid matches too but I don't think JTAlert or such does that.

Mike W9MDB




On Monday, July 12, 2021, 09:51:01 AM CDT, Michael Black via groups.io <mdblack98@...> wrote:


The problem with that solution is the users will be logging the wrong state.  You'll get the LOTW credit but your log (most likely) won't reflect the award.
Alternate call sign in TQSL with a QRZ entry to match is the way to do it all.

Mike W9MDB


On Monday, July 12, 2021, 03:03:57 AM CDT, Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:


On 7/11/2021 6:16 PM, Timothy Brannon wrote:

> Is this not the proper way to log these vacation contacts, so that my
> QSO partners get credit for New Mexico instead of my home QTH in Texas?


While it's not wrong, it's also un-necessary. All it takes is to set up
a second Station Location within TQSL. Just like for your home QTH, you
specify State, County, CQ and IARU Zones, and grid. And you sign the log
with that Station Location.

Good logging software handles these situations quite well. I was lucky
to discover DXKeeper when I got back on the air in 2003.

We follow that procedure for county expeditions for 7QP and CQP, for
grid expeditions, and for Field Day.

73, Jim K9YC











locked Re: When Callsign/8 portable is used the Grid Locator is not sent in a CQ

Michael Black
 

The problem with that solution is the users will be logging the wrong state.  You'll get the LOTW credit but your log (most likely) won't reflect the award.
Alternate call sign in TQSL with a QRZ entry to match is the way to do it all.

Mike W9MDB


On Monday, July 12, 2021, 03:03:57 AM CDT, Jim Brown <k9yc@...> wrote:


On 7/11/2021 6:16 PM, Timothy Brannon wrote:

> Is this not the proper way to log these vacation contacts, so that my
> QSO partners get credit for New Mexico instead of my home QTH in Texas?


While it's not wrong, it's also un-necessary. All it takes is to set up
a second Station Location within TQSL. Just like for your home QTH, you
specify State, County, CQ and IARU Zones, and grid. And you sign the log
with that Station Location.

Good logging software handles these situations quite well. I was lucky
to discover DXKeeper when I got back on the air in 2003.

We follow that procedure for county expeditions for 7QP and CQP, for
grid expeditions, and for Field Day.

73, Jim K9YC







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