Date   

locked Re: Duty cycle question

careyfisher@...
 

You can't talk about Duty Cycle without talking about component temperature. You can run something at 100% duty cycle forever if you can keep the temperature within the ratings of the components.
So, Joe WB9SBD, you can certainly do a 60 minutes On, 60 minutes Off duty cycle if you can keep the components cool.


73, Carey, WB4HXE

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 5:16 PM Frank Donovan <donovanf@...> wrote:
Hi Dan,

FT8 is 100% duty cycle during the entire duration of its 12.6 second transmission.

FT8 is not USB.   Your transceiver is set to USB only so it can translate
the FT8 signal generated by your sound card to selected ham bands.
Think of your transceiver as a mixer with a filter on the output so you
don't get two sidebands from the mixer.

73
Frank
W3LPL


From: "d_ziolkowski" <dan.ziolkowski@...>
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:58:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

But--- a CW signal is 100% carrier. 

FT8 is USB , little to no carrier.

Think AM vs SSB.

Dan KC2STA



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 4:29 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
How narrow is a dead carrier? a LOT smaller than 50 hz, so how long can your rig like a CW Key be pressed down and held?

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 8/13/2020 2:14 PM, d_ziolkowski wrote:
Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA


    




--
Dan Ziolkowski KC2STA
SKCC #4290T
Ubuntu LINUX






--
Carey Fisher


--
73, Carey, WB4HXE


locked Re: Meteor Scatter 10M sum up

Amos Sobel 4X4MF
 

10M Meteor Scatter friends

 

To sum up the results of this activity as documented by PSKreporter:

  1. Yesterday morning I did manage to contact G0ORH which is not reported on PSKreporter of today.
  2. This morning I did receive OH3MA
  3. This evening I did look at PSKreporter (See attached)  and found   just 2 Europeans (4X4MF, OH3MA) and 8  American (W0VTT, N4AU, N8OC, AD4TJ, KR1ST, K1YOW, VE1SKY, VP9NO)  active station on JT9 28.145 Mhz.

 

The results are quite disappointing to my taste,  Where there more participants which I did not mention?

 

Amos 4X4MF

 

========================================================

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andrew OBrien
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 1:00 AM
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Meteor Scatter 10M

 

This thread will be closed as of 1200 UTC 13/8/20

Andy . K3UK 


locked Re: Duty cycle question

Frank Donovan
 

Hi Dan,

FT8 is 100% duty cycle during the entire duration of its 12.6 second transmission.

FT8 is not USB.   Your transceiver is set to USB only so it can translate
the FT8 signal generated by your sound card to selected ham bands.
Think of your transceiver as a mixer with a filter on the output so you
don't get two sidebands from the mixer.

73
Frank
W3LPL


From: "d_ziolkowski" <dan.ziolkowski@...>
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:58:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

But--- a CW signal is 100% carrier. 

FT8 is USB , little to no carrier.

Think AM vs SSB.

Dan KC2STA



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 4:29 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
How narrow is a dead carrier? a LOT smaller than 50 hz, so how long can your rig like a CW Key be pressed down and held?

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 8/13/2020 2:14 PM, d_ziolkowski wrote:
Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA


    




--
Dan Ziolkowski KC2STA
SKCC #4290T
Ubuntu LINUX




locked Re: Duty cycle question

Alan G4ZFQ
 

But--- a CW signal is 100% carrier.
FT8 is USB , little to no carrier.
Think AM vs SSB.
Dan,

Well, no.

CW may be produced with a SSB radio. It is an on/off single tone, not actually 100% duty cycle because it is keyed. No "carrier".
Digital modes are usually a series of 100% duty cycle single tones, yes produced in SSB mode, no carrier.

AM does not come into it. AM has a carrier which is modulated so modulated AM actually has 3 "tones".

73 Alan G4ZFQ


locked Re: Duty cycle question

Frank Donovan
 

Don't try that on the east coast...  The humidity in our air would quickly
fill the cooler with water!



From: "JP Tucson, AZ" <samcat88az@...>
To: main@wsjtx.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:42:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

Nope! It is 100% for 13 seconds out of 30...  an overall 43% true duty cycle.

AND... it will warm up your finals unless you mitigate the extra heat; using extra fans across the PA heat sink/case will do the trick.

I went on an outing here in Arizona several days back... 108 degrees... I modified a small cooler with 2 holes, one a smaller air entry with filter (to prevent dust intrusion, and a second outlet hole - 3 inches & with a hose tube & blower with the outlet right on to the back of the radio.  Inside the small cooler are 12 "blue ice" solid blocks that the air goes through & around... they were frozen to zero degrees  F !   The air to the radio was 55 degrees. The temp probe on the heat sink never rose above 69. That's 40 degrees less than the outdoor air temp.  You can certainly store more blue ice blocks in another unmodified cooler for hour upon hours & swap those in once the ones in operation can't keep the tube exit air below 75 or 80; I ran mine for 3.5 hours and at the end it was still no higher than 69 degrees.  We ran out of endurance in the desert heat before the batteries & blue ice did.  
 

73 - John - N7GHZ

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 12:28 PM Hasan Schiers N0AN <hbasri.schiers6@...> wrote:
Dan,
No. FT8 is virtually 100% duty cycle. It has little to do with transmitted bandwidth.
73, N0AN
Hasan



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 2:14 PM d_ziolkowski <dan.ziolkowski@...> wrote:
Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA






locked Re: Duty cycle question

d_ziolkowski
 

But--- a CW signal is 100% carrier. 

FT8 is USB , little to no carrier.

Think AM vs SSB.

Dan KC2STA



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 4:29 PM Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:
How narrow is a dead carrier? a LOT smaller than 50 hz, so how long can your rig like a CW Key be pressed down and held?

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 8/13/2020 2:14 PM, d_ziolkowski wrote:
Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA


    




--
Dan Ziolkowski KC2STA
SKCC #4290T
Ubuntu LINUX


locked Re: Duty cycle question

JP Tucson, AZ
 

Nope! It is 100% for 13 seconds out of 30...  an overall 43% true duty cycle.

AND... it will warm up your finals unless you mitigate the extra heat; using extra fans across the PA heat sink/case will do the trick.

I went on an outing here in Arizona several days back... 108 degrees... I modified a small cooler with 2 holes, one a smaller air entry with filter (to prevent dust intrusion, and a second outlet hole - 3 inches & with a hose tube & blower with the outlet right on to the back of the radio.  Inside the small cooler are 12 "blue ice" solid blocks that the air goes through & around... they were frozen to zero degrees  F !   The air to the radio was 55 degrees. The temp probe on the heat sink never rose above 69. That's 40 degrees less than the outdoor air temp.  You can certainly store more blue ice blocks in another unmodified cooler for hour upon hours & swap those in once the ones in operation can't keep the tube exit air below 75 or 80; I ran mine for 3.5 hours and at the end it was still no higher than 69 degrees.  We ran out of endurance in the desert heat before the batteries & blue ice did.  
 

73 - John - N7GHZ


On Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 12:28 PM Hasan Schiers N0AN <hbasri.schiers6@...> wrote:
Dan,
No. FT8 is virtually 100% duty cycle. It has little to do with transmitted bandwidth.
73, N0AN
Hasan



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 2:14 PM d_ziolkowski <dan.ziolkowski@...> wrote:
Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA



locked Re: Duty cycle question

Joe WB9SBD
 

exactly!

On 8/13/2020 3:35 PM, Frank Donovan wrote:

Try with on your radio and let us know how it goes...


From: "Joe WB9SBD" <nss@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:32:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

60 minutes on, 60 minutes off is then also 50% duty cycle?

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 8/13/2020 2:58 PM, careyfisher@... wrote:
15 seconds On, 15 seconds Off, looks like a 50% duty cycle to me.
73, Carey, WB4HXE

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:42 PM W1EL Eric <elowell@...> wrote:

Power out = power out, regardless of bandwidth.

 

Best, Eric (W1EL)

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of d_ziolkowski
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 15:14
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

 

Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA




--
Carey Fisher


--
73, Carey, WB4HXE






    


locked Re: Duty cycle question

Frank Donovan
 

Try with on your radio and let us know how it goes...



From: "Joe WB9SBD" <nss@...>
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:32:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

60 minutes on, 60 minutes off is then also 50% duty cycle?

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 8/13/2020 2:58 PM, careyfisher@... wrote:
15 seconds On, 15 seconds Off, looks like a 50% duty cycle to me.
73, Carey, WB4HXE

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:42 PM W1EL Eric <elowell@...> wrote:

Power out = power out, regardless of bandwidth.

 

Best, Eric (W1EL)

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of d_ziolkowski
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 15:14
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

 

Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA




--
Carey Fisher


--
73, Carey, WB4HXE

    





locked Re: Duty cycle question

Joe WB9SBD
 

60 minutes on, 60 minutes off is then also 50% duty cycle?

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 8/13/2020 2:58 PM, careyfisher@... wrote:

15 seconds On, 15 seconds Off, looks like a 50% duty cycle to me.
73, Carey, WB4HXE

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:42 PM W1EL Eric <elowell@...> wrote:

Power out = power out, regardless of bandwidth.

 

Best, Eric (W1EL)

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of d_ziolkowski
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 15:14
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

 

Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA




--
Carey Fisher


--
73, Carey, WB4HXE

    


locked Re: Duty cycle question

Joe WB9SBD
 

How narrow is a dead carrier? a LOT smaller than 50 hz, so how long can your rig like a CW Key be pressed down and held?

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 8/13/2020 2:14 PM, d_ziolkowski wrote:

Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA


    


locked Re: Duty cycle question

careyfisher@...
 

15 seconds On, 15 seconds Off, looks like a 50% duty cycle to me.
73, Carey, WB4HXE

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 3:42 PM W1EL Eric <elowell@...> wrote:

Power out = power out, regardless of bandwidth.

 

Best, Eric (W1EL)

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of d_ziolkowski
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 15:14
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

 

Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA




--
Carey Fisher


--
73, Carey, WB4HXE


locked Re: Duty cycle question

W1EL Eric
 

Power out = power out, regardless of bandwidth.

 

Best, Eric (W1EL)

 

From: main@WSJTX.groups.io <main@WSJTX.groups.io> On Behalf Of d_ziolkowski
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 15:14
To: main@WSJTX.groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] Duty cycle question

 

Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA


locked Re: Duty cycle question

Hasan Schiers N0AN
 

Dan,
No. FT8 is virtually 100% duty cycle. It has little to do with transmitted bandwidth.
73, N0AN
Hasan



On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 2:14 PM d_ziolkowski <dan.ziolkowski@...> wrote:
Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA


locked Re: MKS144 help pse

k3dne <k3dne@...>
 

Thanks again Joe.
No mic boost on my external sound card. Spatial Sound is off. 
I uninstalled the program and went to the download page and downloaded the most recent version. Somehow it remembers my previous settings and started in MSK144 mode with previous settings. I did not expect that.
Still no decodes.
Transmitted and was received per pskreporter.
73,
Ed K3DNE

On 08/13/2020 1:13 PM Joe Dzekevich <joedzekevich@...> wrote:


Ed,

 

Two more thoughts.  Right click on your lower right sound icon and open the volume mixer.

In the mic settings, under LEVELS, you may see a microphone boost.  Make sure that is off.

Look at all the playback devices and make sure Spatial Sound is off.

 

We will get this yet!  LOL.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 12:49 PM
To: Joe Dzekevich; George J Molnar; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Joe, George and all,

First: Thanks for all the suggestions and help based on my post! Still no luck.

Joe and George basically suggested similar things. I did go into my sound card settings and changed from CD to DVD quality without decoding success. I've adjusted the input level many times with no decode success. Not sure what AP means so was unable to turn it off.

One more functionality question, I notice in FT8 (which is still working) that about at the 12 second point in reception that the Decode button which is usually grayed out turns blue for a second then goes back to gray. In MSK144 mode this does NOT happen - it stays gray for the entire reception period. Is that normal behavior in MSK144 mode?

73

Ed K3DNE

On 08/13/2020 8:32 AM Joe Dzekevich <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Ed,

 

This is a long shot, but worth a try.  I am wondering if the sound card sampling rate may be too low for a very fast mode like MSK144.  Do this and take a look.

 

Go to Windows Settings

Go to SOUND

Scroll down to INPUT

Below INPUT select Device Properties

On the right, select Additional Device Properties

Under the ADVANCED tab, if the sound card is at CD quality, change it to 4800 Hz DVD Quality

Under the CUSTOM tab, I also have AGC unchecked.

 

Joe

K1YOW

 


From: Joe Dzekevich [mailto:joedzekevich@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 6:09 PM
To: 'Ed Kucharski'
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Ed,

 

I am stumped.  Since you were decoded, you should also be able to decode.  At least it looks not to be a frequency accuracy issue.  When you get on in the mornings, hopefully there will be some local stations that will fill the screen when you receive them and see if it decodes a very strong signal.  If you are on deep decode, maybe back off to normal.  Lighten-up on the CPU load.  I am using a quad Dell and it is around 15%, give or take a little, when receiving MSK144.  

 

How do you interface to the IC-746?  I use a RIGBlaster Advantage with all its cables for COM and CAT.  I do CAT control via the COM port and I pump-in the Tx audio via the mic connector.  I also have the COM port sent at maximum speed for the IC-746PRO, 19.2 K baud.  I wonder if some Rx bits are falling into the bit bucket for a high speed mode like MSK144 in the Rx chain.

 

Ugh.  LOL.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 4:59 PM
To: Joe Dzekevich; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Joe and all,

I transmitted MSK144 on 50.260 several times and then checked pskreporter. I was heard by 7 stations within 900 miles of my QTH! I did hear some local activity on frequency and a few bursts but no decodes. So I'm back to where this all started but now know that my frequency is within the frequency threshold since I was decoded. I did turn AGC to off and widened my filters on USB as wide as possible. I'm open to additional suggestions. BTW, FT8 is still working fine.

73,

Ed K3DNE

On 08/12/2020 2:28 PM Joe Dzekevich <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

In WSJT-X, it does upload everything you hear to PSK Reporter.  Likewise in fldigi, it can do the same.  In both cases, you need to check the settings to make sure they are enabled.  That is the key.  Often I will just leave the rig in Rx mode on something like 6m FT8 or 6m MSK144 when I am not using it.  It will then upload to PSK Reporter everything it hears, so other stations can go to PSK Reporter and they can see who heard them on a CQ or QSO.  There are times when the band is “dead” but it is not really dead – it is open somewhere but no one is around to answer.  

 

Go to PSK Reporter:

https://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html

 

Then you will see a line that you need to put in some info:

 

From left to right, select in the boxes:

Band (i.e 6m)

Show Signals

Sent/Rcvd By – This will put stations on the map who heard you inside a text box bubble.  If you select Rcvd, it only shows who you heard.

The Callsign

Your call sign

Using All Modes

Time – whatever, like 1 hour.

Each time you change something, hit GO.

 

This is a very good tool.  I will also sometimes leave the rig running fldigi on let’s say 20m on the Olivia frequency with search passband set so it reports to PSK Reporter all Olivia, MFSK, whatever modes it hears when folks have their TxID’s set.  Then we know what activity there was on what modes.  For modes like PSK31 and RTTY, you do not have to set the search passband in fldigi.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 2:00 PM
To: Joe Dz; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Thanks Joe. Very interesting. I was concerned about drift prior to using the IC746 on digital. I used a very low tech mod by gently packing the enclosure of the 60MHz fixed local oscillator with cotton balls.  https://www.chris.org/Modifications/IC-746-almost-free-tcxo.html 

Please tell me more about PSK Reporter and how to get reports (I've been in the hobby for almost 50 years but only on digital for 2 months!). Thanks again.

73,

Ed K3DNE

 

On 08/12/2020 8:44 AM Joe Dz <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

I use two rigs, a TS-590SG and an IC-746PRO.  I can use both on 6m MSK144, but I actually like the IC-746PRO better for 6m MSK144.

 

While timing is critical for FT8, it is less so for MSK144 because in the 15s time slot, you are repeating a 72ms digital message over and over again, so if you start and end a tad off in time, it is not a big deal.

 

However, unlike FT8 where time is critical, for MSK144, frequency is critical.  Both rigs had a drift problem, so in both rigs I put in TCXO’s.  I could always work 6m MSK144 in the TS-590SG before the TCXO went in, but it would drift for the first 5-10 minutes.  The TCXO solved that.

 

On the IC-746PRO, not only would it drift, but the frequency got more inaccurate as it went up the bands.  I could work MSK144 on 6m but on 2m it was a lost cause.  On 2m it would not decode anything.  So I put in a stable TCXO and I used a frequency counter to calibrate it.  What was happening before is that I would run the cal procedure on 15 MHz WWV but by the time the rig got up to 2m, the frequency was way off.  

 

My IC-746PRO actually does better on 6m MSK144 than my newer TS-590SG, although it works too.  In the TS-590SG I can crank open the SSB data filter to 3 kHz.  That is basically on the hairy edge.  However, in the IC-746PRO, I can push-in the filter button, and I can crank the SSB filters open to 3.6 KHz.  I think this is the main reason why I do better on MSK144 with the IC-746PRO than I do with the TS-590SG.

 

Try this:  call CQ on MSK144 in your local time slot (here in New England, because we are as East as you can get, we usually Tx in the 2nd and 4th odd slots).  Then go to PSK Reporter and see if any stations heard you.  If other stations are decoding you, then you are on frequency within a 200 Hz window and something else is wrong.  If no Rx reports, then you are probably more than 200 Hz off frequency, and borrowing a frequency counter may be a way to go.

 

Hopefully this helps a bit.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 


From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of k3dne
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 9:02 PM
To: WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

I can't decode MSK144 sigs. I'm new to the group and wsjt-x (version 2.2.1). Used FT8 without issues since early June. Tried MSK144 several times in the June contest and since without a single decode.

I can hear signals (sometimes via meteors, sometimes locals).  I see signals on the fast graph.

Rig is a IC 746. 50.260 (recently freq calibrated per manual).  AGC Fast, 9MHz filter 2.4k, 455K filter 9k, USB

Time standard is: Dimension 4 (time is "exact")

Setup: FTol 200, Rx 1500Hz, Report 0, T/R 15s, Auto Seq checked. Rcv box 6-10%

File, Settings: my call and grid, IARU Reg 2, Full call in Tx3, Tx messages to Rx freq window checked, enable vhf/uhf/microwave features checked, tx watchdog 6min.

File, Radio: none

 

I'm thinking there is something I'm missing since the system works fine with FT8?

Any thoughts?

 

73,

Ed K3DNE

EM94ae


locked Re: Duty cycle question

Arnold Lausevich <nk9o@...>
 

Thats why I run my amp at 50% because of the duty cycle especially during a contest.   Thats the exception than the normal operating practice of just running my rig.  Also I run at 50% usually and thats more than adequate for FT8 in 90% of my contacts.

On Thursday, August 13, 2020, 2:14:11 PM CDT, d_ziolkowski <dan.ziolkowski@...> wrote:


Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA


locked Duty cycle question

d_ziolkowski
 

Hello all=

We have all been educated that due to the high duty cycle of FT8, it is wise to not run full power of you rig to avoid burning up the finals. 

My question relates to the effect of the transmitted bandwidth, which in FT8 is 50HZ, has on the actual power loading of the finals. 

Since when transmitting a 50Hz signal via a transmitter capable of about 2Khz or so, would this , in effect , very lightly load the finals, even at full power?

Thanks

Dan KC2STA


locked Re: MKS144 help pse

Gary - AG0N
 

On Aug 13, 2020, at 10:49, k3dne <k3dne@...> wrote:

I notice in FT8 (which is still working) that about at the 12 second point in reception that the Decode button which is usually grayed out turns blue for a second then goes back to gray. In MSK144 mode this does NOT happen - it stays gray for the entire reception period. Is that normal behavior in MSK144 mode?
The new version of FT8 decoder makes a decode cycle at around 12 seconds, then "digs deeper” and grabs a second decode and a final one at the end. MSK144 is continuous “real time” decoding of high speed data as it comes in. That’s why it takes a LOT more processor to run MSK than FT8.

What you’re seeing is normal.

Gary - AG0N


locked Re: MKS144 help pse

Joe Dz
 

Ed,

 

Two more thoughts.  Right click on your lower right sound icon and open the volume mixer.

In the mic settings, under LEVELS, you may see a microphone boost.  Make sure that is off.

Look at all the playback devices and make sure Spatial Sound is off.

 

We will get this yet!  LOL.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 12:49 PM
To: Joe Dzekevich; George J Molnar; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Joe, George and all,

First: Thanks for all the suggestions and help based on my post! Still no luck.

Joe and George basically suggested similar things. I did go into my sound card settings and changed from CD to DVD quality without decoding success. I've adjusted the input level many times with no decode success. Not sure what AP means so was unable to turn it off.

One more functionality question, I notice in FT8 (which is still working) that about at the 12 second point in reception that the Decode button which is usually grayed out turns blue for a second then goes back to gray. In MSK144 mode this does NOT happen - it stays gray for the entire reception period. Is that normal behavior in MSK144 mode?

73

Ed K3DNE

On 08/13/2020 8:32 AM Joe Dzekevich <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Ed,

 

This is a long shot, but worth a try.  I am wondering if the sound card sampling rate may be too low for a very fast mode like MSK144.  Do this and take a look.

 

Go to Windows Settings

Go to SOUND

Scroll down to INPUT

Below INPUT select Device Properties

On the right, select Additional Device Properties

Under the ADVANCED tab, if the sound card is at CD quality, change it to 4800 Hz DVD Quality

Under the CUSTOM tab, I also have AGC unchecked.

 

Joe

K1YOW

 


From: Joe Dzekevich [mailto:joedzekevich@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 6:09 PM
To: 'Ed Kucharski'
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Ed,

 

I am stumped.  Since you were decoded, you should also be able to decode.  At least it looks not to be a frequency accuracy issue.  When you get on in the mornings, hopefully there will be some local stations that will fill the screen when you receive them and see if it decodes a very strong signal.  If you are on deep decode, maybe back off to normal.  Lighten-up on the CPU load.  I am using a quad Dell and it is around 15%, give or take a little, when receiving MSK144.  

 

How do you interface to the IC-746?  I use a RIGBlaster Advantage with all its cables for COM and CAT.  I do CAT control via the COM port and I pump-in the Tx audio via the mic connector.  I also have the COM port sent at maximum speed for the IC-746PRO, 19.2 K baud.  I wonder if some Rx bits are falling into the bit bucket for a high speed mode like MSK144 in the Rx chain.

 

Ugh.  LOL.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 4:59 PM
To: Joe Dzekevich; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Joe and all,

I transmitted MSK144 on 50.260 several times and then checked pskreporter. I was heard by 7 stations within 900 miles of my QTH! I did hear some local activity on frequency and a few bursts but no decodes. So I'm back to where this all started but now know that my frequency is within the frequency threshold since I was decoded. I did turn AGC to off and widened my filters on USB as wide as possible. I'm open to additional suggestions. BTW, FT8 is still working fine.

73,

Ed K3DNE

On 08/12/2020 2:28 PM Joe Dzekevich <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

In WSJT-X, it does upload everything you hear to PSK Reporter.  Likewise in fldigi, it can do the same.  In both cases, you need to check the settings to make sure they are enabled.  That is the key.  Often I will just leave the rig in Rx mode on something like 6m FT8 or 6m MSK144 when I am not using it.  It will then upload to PSK Reporter everything it hears, so other stations can go to PSK Reporter and they can see who heard them on a CQ or QSO.  There are times when the band is “dead” but it is not really dead – it is open somewhere but no one is around to answer.  

 

Go to PSK Reporter:

https://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html

 

Then you will see a line that you need to put in some info:

 

From left to right, select in the boxes:

Band (i.e 6m)

Show Signals

Sent/Rcvd By – This will put stations on the map who heard you inside a text box bubble.  If you select Rcvd, it only shows who you heard.

The Callsign

Your call sign

Using All Modes

Time – whatever, like 1 hour.

Each time you change something, hit GO.

 

This is a very good tool.  I will also sometimes leave the rig running fldigi on let’s say 20m on the Olivia frequency with search passband set so it reports to PSK Reporter all Olivia, MFSK, whatever modes it hears when folks have their TxID’s set.  Then we know what activity there was on what modes.  For modes like PSK31 and RTTY, you do not have to set the search passband in fldigi.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 2:00 PM
To: Joe Dz; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Thanks Joe. Very interesting. I was concerned about drift prior to using the IC746 on digital. I used a very low tech mod by gently packing the enclosure of the 60MHz fixed local oscillator with cotton balls.  https://www.chris.org/Modifications/IC-746-almost-free-tcxo.html 

Please tell me more about PSK Reporter and how to get reports (I've been in the hobby for almost 50 years but only on digital for 2 months!). Thanks again.

73,

Ed K3DNE

 

On 08/12/2020 8:44 AM Joe Dz <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

I use two rigs, a TS-590SG and an IC-746PRO.  I can use both on 6m MSK144, but I actually like the IC-746PRO better for 6m MSK144.

 

While timing is critical for FT8, it is less so for MSK144 because in the 15s time slot, you are repeating a 72ms digital message over and over again, so if you start and end a tad off in time, it is not a big deal.

 

However, unlike FT8 where time is critical, for MSK144, frequency is critical.  Both rigs had a drift problem, so in both rigs I put in TCXO’s.  I could always work 6m MSK144 in the TS-590SG before the TCXO went in, but it would drift for the first 5-10 minutes.  The TCXO solved that.

 

On the IC-746PRO, not only would it drift, but the frequency got more inaccurate as it went up the bands.  I could work MSK144 on 6m but on 2m it was a lost cause.  On 2m it would not decode anything.  So I put in a stable TCXO and I used a frequency counter to calibrate it.  What was happening before is that I would run the cal procedure on 15 MHz WWV but by the time the rig got up to 2m, the frequency was way off.  

 

My IC-746PRO actually does better on 6m MSK144 than my newer TS-590SG, although it works too.  In the TS-590SG I can crank open the SSB data filter to 3 kHz.  That is basically on the hairy edge.  However, in the IC-746PRO, I can push-in the filter button, and I can crank the SSB filters open to 3.6 KHz.  I think this is the main reason why I do better on MSK144 with the IC-746PRO than I do with the TS-590SG.

 

Try this:  call CQ on MSK144 in your local time slot (here in New England, because we are as East as you can get, we usually Tx in the 2nd and 4th odd slots).  Then go to PSK Reporter and see if any stations heard you.  If other stations are decoding you, then you are on frequency within a 200 Hz window and something else is wrong.  If no Rx reports, then you are probably more than 200 Hz off frequency, and borrowing a frequency counter may be a way to go.

 

Hopefully this helps a bit.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 


From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of k3dne
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 9:02 PM
To: WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

I can't decode MSK144 sigs. I'm new to the group and wsjt-x (version 2.2.1). Used FT8 without issues since early June. Tried MSK144 several times in the June contest and since without a single decode.

I can hear signals (sometimes via meteors, sometimes locals).  I see signals on the fast graph.

Rig is a IC 746. 50.260 (recently freq calibrated per manual).  AGC Fast, 9MHz filter 2.4k, 455K filter 9k, USB

Time standard is: Dimension 4 (time is "exact")

Setup: FTol 200, Rx 1500Hz, Report 0, T/R 15s, Auto Seq checked. Rcv box 6-10%

File, Settings: my call and grid, IARU Reg 2, Full call in Tx3, Tx messages to Rx freq window checked, enable vhf/uhf/microwave features checked, tx watchdog 6min.

File, Radio: none

 

I'm thinking there is something I'm missing since the system works fine with FT8?

Any thoughts?

 

73,

Ed K3DNE

EM94ae


locked Re: MKS144 help pse

Joe Dz
 

This is a strange problem Ed.  That is for sure. 

 

MSK144 is decoding all the time in real time, so as soon as a ping comes in, the text displays immediately, unlike FT8 which goes back over a file several times to do the decoding.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 12:49 PM
To: Joe Dzekevich; George J Molnar; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Joe, George and all,

First: Thanks for all the suggestions and help based on my post! Still no luck.

Joe and George basically suggested similar things. I did go into my sound card settings and changed from CD to DVD quality without decoding success. I've adjusted the input level many times with no decode success. Not sure what AP means so was unable to turn it off.

One more functionality question, I notice in FT8 (which is still working) that about at the 12 second point in reception that the Decode button which is usually grayed out turns blue for a second then goes back to gray. In MSK144 mode this does NOT happen - it stays gray for the entire reception period. Is that normal behavior in MSK144 mode?

73

Ed K3DNE

On 08/13/2020 8:32 AM Joe Dzekevich <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Ed,

 

This is a long shot, but worth a try.  I am wondering if the sound card sampling rate may be too low for a very fast mode like MSK144.  Do this and take a look.

 

Go to Windows Settings

Go to SOUND

Scroll down to INPUT

Below INPUT select Device Properties

On the right, select Additional Device Properties

Under the ADVANCED tab, if the sound card is at CD quality, change it to 4800 Hz DVD Quality

Under the CUSTOM tab, I also have AGC unchecked.

 

Joe

K1YOW

 


From: Joe Dzekevich [mailto:joedzekevich@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 6:09 PM
To: 'Ed Kucharski'
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Ed,

 

I am stumped.  Since you were decoded, you should also be able to decode.  At least it looks not to be a frequency accuracy issue.  When you get on in the mornings, hopefully there will be some local stations that will fill the screen when you receive them and see if it decodes a very strong signal.  If you are on deep decode, maybe back off to normal.  Lighten-up on the CPU load.  I am using a quad Dell and it is around 15%, give or take a little, when receiving MSK144.  

 

How do you interface to the IC-746?  I use a RIGBlaster Advantage with all its cables for COM and CAT.  I do CAT control via the COM port and I pump-in the Tx audio via the mic connector.  I also have the COM port sent at maximum speed for the IC-746PRO, 19.2 K baud.  I wonder if some Rx bits are falling into the bit bucket for a high speed mode like MSK144 in the Rx chain.

 

Ugh.  LOL.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 4:59 PM
To: Joe Dzekevich; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: RE: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Joe and all,

I transmitted MSK144 on 50.260 several times and then checked pskreporter. I was heard by 7 stations within 900 miles of my QTH! I did hear some local activity on frequency and a few bursts but no decodes. So I'm back to where this all started but now know that my frequency is within the frequency threshold since I was decoded. I did turn AGC to off and widened my filters on USB as wide as possible. I'm open to additional suggestions. BTW, FT8 is still working fine.

73,

Ed K3DNE

On 08/12/2020 2:28 PM Joe Dzekevich <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

In WSJT-X, it does upload everything you hear to PSK Reporter.  Likewise in fldigi, it can do the same.  In both cases, you need to check the settings to make sure they are enabled.  That is the key.  Often I will just leave the rig in Rx mode on something like 6m FT8 or 6m MSK144 when I am not using it.  It will then upload to PSK Reporter everything it hears, so other stations can go to PSK Reporter and they can see who heard them on a CQ or QSO.  There are times when the band is “dead” but it is not really dead – it is open somewhere but no one is around to answer.  

 

Go to PSK Reporter:

https://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html

 

Then you will see a line that you need to put in some info:

 

From left to right, select in the boxes:

Band (i.e 6m)

Show Signals

Sent/Rcvd By – This will put stations on the map who heard you inside a text box bubble.  If you select Rcvd, it only shows who you heard.

The Callsign

Your call sign

Using All Modes

Time – whatever, like 1 hour.

Each time you change something, hit GO.

 

This is a very good tool.  I will also sometimes leave the rig running fldigi on let’s say 20m on the Olivia frequency with search passband set so it reports to PSK Reporter all Olivia, MFSK, whatever modes it hears when folks have their TxID’s set.  Then we know what activity there was on what modes.  For modes like PSK31 and RTTY, you do not have to set the search passband in fldigi.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 

 


From: Ed Kucharski [mailto:k3dne@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 2:00 PM
To: Joe Dz; WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: Re: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

Thanks Joe. Very interesting. I was concerned about drift prior to using the IC746 on digital. I used a very low tech mod by gently packing the enclosure of the 60MHz fixed local oscillator with cotton balls.  https://www.chris.org/Modifications/IC-746-almost-free-tcxo.html 

Please tell me more about PSK Reporter and how to get reports (I've been in the hobby for almost 50 years but only on digital for 2 months!). Thanks again.

73,

Ed K3DNE

 

On 08/12/2020 8:44 AM Joe Dz <joedzekevich@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

I use two rigs, a TS-590SG and an IC-746PRO.  I can use both on 6m MSK144, but I actually like the IC-746PRO better for 6m MSK144.

 

While timing is critical for FT8, it is less so for MSK144 because in the 15s time slot, you are repeating a 72ms digital message over and over again, so if you start and end a tad off in time, it is not a big deal.

 

However, unlike FT8 where time is critical, for MSK144, frequency is critical.  Both rigs had a drift problem, so in both rigs I put in TCXO’s.  I could always work 6m MSK144 in the TS-590SG before the TCXO went in, but it would drift for the first 5-10 minutes.  The TCXO solved that.

 

On the IC-746PRO, not only would it drift, but the frequency got more inaccurate as it went up the bands.  I could work MSK144 on 6m but on 2m it was a lost cause.  On 2m it would not decode anything.  So I put in a stable TCXO and I used a frequency counter to calibrate it.  What was happening before is that I would run the cal procedure on 15 MHz WWV but by the time the rig got up to 2m, the frequency was way off.  

 

My IC-746PRO actually does better on 6m MSK144 than my newer TS-590SG, although it works too.  In the TS-590SG I can crank open the SSB data filter to 3 kHz.  That is basically on the hairy edge.  However, in the IC-746PRO, I can push-in the filter button, and I can crank the SSB filters open to 3.6 KHz.  I think this is the main reason why I do better on MSK144 with the IC-746PRO than I do with the TS-590SG.

 

Try this:  call CQ on MSK144 in your local time slot (here in New England, because we are as East as you can get, we usually Tx in the 2nd and 4th odd slots).  Then go to PSK Reporter and see if any stations heard you.  If other stations are decoding you, then you are on frequency within a 200 Hz window and something else is wrong.  If no Rx reports, then you are probably more than 200 Hz off frequency, and borrowing a frequency counter may be a way to go.

 

Hopefully this helps a bit.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 


From: main@WSJTX.groups.io [mailto:main@WSJTX.groups.io] On Behalf Of k3dne
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 9:02 PM
To: WSJTX@groups.io
Subject: [WSJTX] MKS144 help pse

 

I can't decode MSK144 sigs. I'm new to the group and wsjt-x (version 2.2.1). Used FT8 without issues since early June. Tried MSK144 several times in the June contest and since without a single decode.

I can hear signals (sometimes via meteors, sometimes locals).  I see signals on the fast graph.

Rig is a IC 746. 50.260 (recently freq calibrated per manual).  AGC Fast, 9MHz filter 2.4k, 455K filter 9k, USB

Time standard is: Dimension 4 (time is "exact")

Setup: FTol 200, Rx 1500Hz, Report 0, T/R 15s, Auto Seq checked. Rcv box 6-10%

File, Settings: my call and grid, IARU Reg 2, Full call in Tx3, Tx messages to Rx freq window checked, enable vhf/uhf/microwave features checked, tx watchdog 6min.

File, Radio: none

 

I'm thinking there is something I'm missing since the system works fine with FT8?

Any thoughts?

 

73,

Ed K3DNE

EM94ae